|
LISTEN TO THE TURN ON
Apple Podcasts | Google Play | iHeart Radio | Radio Public | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | YouTube CONNECT WITH THE TURN ON Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | Goodreads | Patreon SHOW NOTES On Episode 9.5 of The Turn On, we talk to Lauren Cherelle, author of "The Dawn of Nia," about identity and using literature to lift up the experiences of Southern Black lesbians. Resources:
The Turn On participates in affiliate programs, which provide a small commission when you purchase products via links on this site. This costs you nothing, but helps support the show. Click here for more information. TRANSCRIPT Erica: Before we get started, we have some exciting news to share. Kenrya: Yo, we’re doing big fucking things: The Turn On just joined the Frolic Podcast Network, which is a new community for folks who love erotica and romance novels as much as we do. Erica: So what does that mean for you? I mean, first, y’all need to be happy for a bitch. But more than that, it means that we will be your hookup to connect you with other shows you’ll love almost as much as this one. Kenrya: Yup! And you can start that right now: jus head to Frolic.media/podcasts to find a new show today. Now let’s get started. Kenrya: Come here. Get off. Kenrya: Our guest today is Lauren Cherelle, head of independent publishing collective Resolute Publishing, co-director of the Black Lesbian Literary Collective, and editor and writer of, and contributor to, projects that include “Solace: Writing, Refuge, and LGBTQ Women of Color,” “Lez Talk, A Collection of Black Lesbian Short Fiction,” and last week's selection, “The Dawn of Nia.” When not reading and writing, Lauren likes to travel, binge watch television, and teach women to explore and adore the power of intimacy. That's dope. We're so glad that you're here with us. Thank you so much for saying yes. Lauren Cherelle: Oh, no problem. I'm glad to be here. Kenrya: Yay. Before we get into the interview, we like to ask what folks' pronouns are, so that we make sure that we are using them correctly, so what are your pronouns? Lauren Cherelle: She and her. Kenrya: Awesome and we are also, she and her. Lauren Cherelle: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: Thanks. Erica: In addition to the pronouns, we also like to ... We read your official bio, but we want to break down to our readers and our writers, words what they do. In regular ass words, what do you do? Lauren Cherelle: In regular ass words, I am a storyteller, just pretty much across everything that I do. My background is in graphic design, so there's digital communication, visual storytelling. As far as my work life, I write stories. I am communicating through social media, so I'm telling snippets of stories. Then of course, I play around in my personal time and write fiction. Plainly, yes, I'm a storyteller. Kenrya: Word. When did you first realize that you were a storyteller? Lauren Cherelle: Back in, let me say 2009, when the recession tanked. Well, when the economy tanked. I've always been someone who loved books. I love stories, whether the story is in a book form, or TV, or film. When I was unemployed and wanting to do things that were worthy of my time, I didn't want to waste my time. I decided that I would write a book. That's how it all started. It was kind of out of necessity. I said, "Either I'm going to sit and wallow in my brokeness, or I will sit here and use this time to produce something that matters." That's where it all started. Kenrya: Had you written before? As part of your communicating, being a storyteller, had you written short stories? A novel is a huge, scary thing, but had you written other things before that? Lauren Cherelle: You know, it's so interesting because it wasn't until that point, to the point where I started to write my first book, that I had to sit down and really think about my writing journey. When I was a child, I journaled a lot and I had even forgot, I wrote a play at church once and they actually produced it. Just all these little small things, poetry. I remember writing things specifically in seventh grade in art class, things I shouldn't be writing and sharing with my friends. Kenrya: You were that kid. Lauren Cherelle: Yeah, I was that kid. But it's always been in me. It wasn't until I hit a point, that my partner and I got to a point where we were stable, but there was so many points of uncertainty during that time, that I realized that this is who I am. I can do this. That's where it comes from. Erica: It's so dope that when we hit the recession, that creativity ... You went to a creative space. Because some people would be like, "Well, let's see what Walmart's doing." But I think it's really dope that- Kenrya: Ain't nothing wrong with that. We do what we've got to do. Erica: Not at all. I would probably be the one saying, "Well, let's see." I wouldn't think to take it to creative space, but you were not only nurturing your pockets, but your mind and your heart when you did that, and I think that is just so amazing, that all of this came out of what could be considered a negative thing. Kenrya: And not letting fear stop you from doing that. Lauren Cherelle: Right, right. It was definitely a lesson in turning lemons into lemonade. It's very easy to be in a space where you are, like I said, there's a lot of uncertainty, depression can kind of slide in, but at the end of the day, you can find a good and in any situation. Kenrya: It's true. I actually started my editorial consultancy when I lost my job. I got laid off in 2008, as part of the recession and I was like, "Oh, okay, what am I going to do?" I started looking for jobs and realize I didn't want one. Then out of that, because the quote unquote worst thing career wise that happened, I was like, "Well, fuck it. I might as well just go and try to do the thing I want to do." So I did. Lauren Cherelle: Sure. Erica: Well Lauren, I read that your work reflects the lives of Southern Black girls and women, and as a Midwestern girl but a Southern girl at heart, that spoke to me. Why do you consider that your focus? Lauren Cherelle: That's my focus, honestly, because that's all I know. At the same time, I think it's important to shed light on a group of people as a whole that don't get much play in the literary sphere. Now, let me qualify that. Of course books produced by, published by Black women, we see them all the time, but as far as a lot of creative energy, places where Black women writers can really find their community, a lot of that doesn't come out of the South. Lauren Cherelle: It comes out of say, New York, or it's in LA, or it's in these mega cities and not necessarily in the South. That's not to say we don't have writers who are popular, but as far as the gatekeepers, or the powers that be, that have the space to really push our work out there, that's not coming from the South. I feel like who I am and who I represent, it's important to put this region on the map in ways that we don't necessarily get to see. In particular, that's when it comes to Black and queer characters. That's why it's important for me to really be true to who I am, and what I know is important to push out into the literary landscape. Kenrya: That kind of brings us to the next question. You run Resolute Publishing, and as the website says, it helps transform dreams into realities for women. I'm guessing and also asking, is that kind of part and parcel with that drive that you have to get that representation and that sense of community out there? Lauren Cherelle: Yeah, absolutely. I think when it comes to Black lesbian and queer characters, I would just pose the question, when is the last time you saw a Black lesbian or queer character on the New York Times Best-Sellers List? You don't see it in those top lists. Kenrya: And if it is, it's a very special edition, you know what I mean? Like everybody's pushed into this separate category instead of being recognized as being part of the full canon. Lauren Cherelle: Right, right. There are very specific parts of the canon that get that level of notoriety. You don't see it with Black lesbian and queer characters, so I thought it was important to really create a space where writers who are producing work with Black lesbian and queer characters can have a home. At the end of the day, it's still limited to the independent publishing space. That's what it came from. But y'all, okay, hold up now. I've got to tell on myself for a second. Kenrya: That's what we like around here. Erica: Well, now we're getting real. Lauren Cherelle: This is completely my fault, and this is what happens when you are a one woman operation, right? I need to make some updates to that. I'm happy to share here with you and the listeners that I recently merged with BLF Press. Kenrya: Oh, wonderful. Lauren Cherelle: BLF Press, I've worked with the publisher there. Her name is Stephanie Andrea Allen. The first book was “Lez Talk,” which is a collection of Black lesbian short fiction. Then we went to “Solace,” and then most recently “Black From The Future.” We've been working together for a few years, and so now finally, we are bringing together our publishing houses to really be that place where women who identify as Black, lesbian or feminist, that's what BLF press stands for, they have a place to go. We want to be that go-to publishing house for writers who identify as Black lesbian fiction, and are producing works that really speak to Black lesbian and feminist characters. Kenrya: So dope. You all co-founded The Black Lesbian Literary Collective together, right? Lauren Cherelle: Yes, we did. Erica: Well first, this is dope as hell. I am so happy that you got to break this news here on the Turn On. I'm not sure if it's really breaking, but nonetheless we got the exclusive. The Black Lesbian Literary Collective, can you tell us a little bit about the Collective and its mission? Lauren Cherelle: Yeah, sure. Stephanie and I formed the Black Lesbian Literary Collective. That's a mouthful, y'all. We formed the BLLC out of, I would say, necessity and obligation. I say necessity because, again, I'm from the South, Stephanie is from the South. At that point in time we both were living in the South. If you're a writer and you're really serious about your craft, it's just like, "Okay, where I want to go if I want to be around women who look like me or write like me?" Meaning they're writing stories, they're writing prose or poetry, whatever the case, that reflects our world, that speaks to who we are. Lauren Cherelle: I can't identify one spot right now that I can go. I live in middle Tennessee, and there's absolutely nowhere I can go if I want to be around people who look like me. Now, I can be around some people. I can be around white men, I can be around white women, I can be around queer people. But when it comes to Black lesbian, and queer people, I don't have a place that I can go. At the end of the day, is that a necessity? If there's something that needs to be created, and it matters to you, then you have to do it. Lauren Cherelle: Then I say out of obligation because there's a legacy of Black women always creating what we need. Rather than waiting for things to happen for us, we do it for ourselves. If you're aware of an issue, then you've got to do something about it. That's why we formed that organization. Kenrya: That's awesome. We noticed in the titles of both of those, you have those two projects both function as collectives, and it really speaks to what you're saying about not having a space and creating it. Why is that model, the model of the collective, really key for you? Because I think there's a lot of ways to bring people together in community. Why is the collective aspect of that important to you? Lauren Cherelle: It's important for many reasons. I think we followed the legacy of Black lesbian women, specifically Black lesbian writers who were forming collectives, like back in the ’70s, like with the Combahee River Collective. These were women- Kenrya: That's the beginning of the Black feminism. Lauren Cherelle: Yeah, they came together because they understood the limitations of literature in America. They supported each other in their endeavors, and they created a space where they could come together to support each other in their endeavors. The legacy is there. Lauren Cherelle: As far as me being a part of the writing world, this is just one part of who I am. But when it comes to the writing world, I don't want to write in isolation. I don't want to produce in isolation. It's not important for me to learn something, if I can't share it with someone else. That's where the collective comes in for me. I prefer for us to do things together. That's not to say that we don't end up doing the work ourselves. Stephanie and I, that happens a lot. Kenrya: That's true. Lauren Cherelle: But at the end of the day we've created this space where women can come together, and share, and learn, and grow, and produce. Erica: On our last episode, we read from “The Dawn of Nia,” and we discussed in that episode that you're not an erotica or romance writer. You're a fiction writer, but you make it a point not to do like those NBC shows or daytime television shows where everything kind of fades to Black, and then you wake up the next morning with a towel wrapped over your spots- Kenrya: Your parts. Erica: Yeah, and birds chirping. You wrote fully realized, and very steamy, sex scenes. Why was it important for you to show the whole relationship between the Nia and Deidre? Lauren Cherelle: Okay, Erica, for real? Steamy? That's so funny to me. Kenrya: You don't think they're steamy? Lauren Cherelle: With my writing, that's probably not how i would categorize it, but see that's the good thing about being a writer, because you get to hear from readers how they feel about your work. Erica: Here's the thing, we have gone, and I say this often, and I don't want to sound like a complete snob because I do like trash television and things like that. Kenrya: Yeah, you like the trash tv. Erica: You know what? We didn't ask for that. All right. What I was getting at is that with erotic writing, there has to be a level of ... Lauren Cherelle: Skill? Erica: ... Like, play. You can't go whole hog. I think you wrote a really good scene that was beautiful, and sensual, and yeah, steamy. I find it hilarious that she's like, "I just wrote." We're like, "No, bitch, but you wrote well." Kenrya: When we read the scene with the massage, after they went out and she was like, "We look too good to go home." She was like, "But I got stuff I want to do," and then they did the massage. We talked about massage for a smooth 10 minutes after we read that. Lauren Cherelle: Oh my God, that is so funny. I think for me, of course I've read a lot of books about Black lesbian lives, of course Black lesbian POV characters, and they can tend to be one note. For me, it is important to really develop well-rounded characters. In the development, in reality, characters fuck. They have sex. Erica: That's life. Kenrya: If that's what you're into. Lauren Cherelle: So there was no way for me of course, to avoid it. But I think because these characters were new to each other, meaning Deidra, Nia, they're new to each other, they're new in a relationship. It's bound to happen. They're going to explore, they want to get to know each other. It comes with the territory. Kenrya: Absolutely. Word. Another thing about the book, and I, I don't think it's spoiling the plot to say that Nia and Deidre both struggle with vulnerability. As somebody who works really hard at being vulnerable, their journeys really resonated with me. I'm wondering, you know we want to get in your business. Have you ever had trouble being vulnerable with folks in your life? Lauren Cherelle: All the time. It doesn't come naturally to me to be vulnerable when I don't know you well. I think in the relationship with my partner, of course we've been together for years, so I'm definitely more vulnerable with her than anyone else. But even after all this time, we've been together for 16 years and she tells me that I have my issues. I have my communication issues, I have my issues with being open, I have my issues with letting my guard down. Personally, that may have been a way for me to identify with my characters on the opposite end, because I'm not that way. How can I develop them to be that way? Kenrya: I wonder, did writing the book help you to sort through any of that? To see the kernel of the truth of what your partner has been telling you? Lauren Cherelle: Probably not. Kenrya: I appreciate your honesty. Erica: Nope, not at all. Lauren Cherelle: I hope not. No, I try to be mindful of it. My partner is a therapist, so I get it. Kenrya: I feel like that's got to be interesting. Lauren Cherelle: Oh yeah, it is. She has, of course, just by training, and I think just who she is personally, it's naturally with her being a therapist. She's honest. She can give it to me personally, and she can give it to me professionally. Kenrya: Word. Lauren Cherelle: That's been interesting. Erica: Well we're going to do a part two of this interview, to get on with your partner. Oh, my goodness, I could not. That's interesting. Kenrya: I'm like, "Interesting is the best word," but I felt like ... We had a therapist on a few weeks ago, I guess about a month ago. We were asking her about, what's the worst thing about being a therapist? She was like, "Everybody wants you to give them therapy." I wonder with the ... Not the temptation, but how easy it would be able to slip into that, because it's somebody who you trust, right? If you're going to be vulnerable and let down your barriers, and make healthy boundaries with anybody, it would be your partner, but for them to be somebody who is so well versed, that's got to be an interesting tight rope to walk. Lauren Cherelle: It is, at times. At the same time, it's nice to be with someone who has great insight, and can communicate, and can problem solve. Erica: Because I'm over here struggling trying to get Negros to fucking tell me what they want for dinner. I would definitely enjoy the other end of that pendulum. Lauren Cherelle: I hear you. Erica: What are you reading now? Lauren Cherelle: Oh my gosh, what am I reading now? I'm a part of a book club and we read queer lit, but we read some of everything. One of the most recent stories I finished was Achilles. It was a story about Achilles, and I can't even recall the name of the story, but anyway, the writer, she retells the story of Achilles. That was interesting. Lauren Cherelle: I try to read all across the board, and right now I've recently started listening to more audio books. Right now I'm reading, or not reading, but listening to a story by Walter Mosley. Kenrya: It's all reading to me. I'm a huge audio book listener too. That's good for those trips and commuting and all of that, and it's still reading. Lauren Cherelle: Oh yeah. But I read pretty much across the board. I don't care what genre it is. If it's a good book, I'll read it. This book right now by Walter Mosley is pretty much speculative fiction. I'm all for everything. Erica: Yes. Kenrya: I guess I should have asked you this before we dove into what are you reading, but what do you want readers to take away from “The Dawn of Nia,” when they get to the last page? Lauren Cherelle: What's most important for me is for a reader to feel like they can find themselves in the story, and that they felt like the story was authentic. That's what's most important to me. Like I said, I write about Southern Black lesbians, and I write about Southern girls. At the end of the day, I feel like if you can derive meaning from the story, because like you said earlier, it's more than romance. It's more than the fact that these are lesbian characters. It's about growth. Nia grew through this experience. I think anybody can identify with being put in a really hard predicament, and being able to see their way through pretty much a storm and come out on the other side, having gained something that they can hold on to for a lifetime. Kenrya: That's a great note for us to end. Can't say it too much better than that. Thank you so much for joining us today. It was great. Lauren Cherelle: Oh, no problem. I definitely enjoyed it. Kenrya: For folks who want to find you, there's a few different websites, right? So there's LCherelle.com. That's L-C-H-E-R-E-L-L-E and Res Publishing, R-E-S publishing.com, and then BlackLesbianLiteraryCollective.org, right?? Lauren Cherelle: Right, yup, yup. Kenrya: Do you want to share Twitter handles? Lauren Cherelle: Yeah, you can find me on Twitter. It's @laurencre8s, that's L-A-U-R-E-N-C-R-E-8-S. I will also throw in there too, because I said I merged with BLF Press. It's BLFPress.com. Kenrya: Awesome. That's it for this week's episode of The Turn On. Thanks, everybody, for joining us. Have a wonderful day. Erica: This episode was produced by us, Erica and Kenrya, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme song is from Brazy. First, please leave a review in your favorite podcast listening app. For real, we want to hear from y'all. Send your book recommendations and all the burning sex and related questions you want us to answer to [email protected], and please subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app. Follow us on Twitter at @TheTurnOnPod, and Instagram at @TheTurnOnPodcast. Find links to books, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Bye.
LISTEN TO THE TURN ON
Apple Podcasts | Google Play | iHeart Radio | Radio Public | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | YouTube CONNECT WITH THE TURN ON Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | Goodreads | Patreon SHOW NOTES On Episode 9 of The Turn On, we read from "The Dawn of Nia" by Lauren Cherelle and talk about getting dressed for dates, corny foreplay and how traumatic experiences have impacted our intimate relationships. Resources:
The Turn On participates in affiliate programs, which provide a small commission when you purchase products via links on this site. This costs you nothing, but helps support the show. Click here for more information. TRANSCRIPT Kenrya: Come here. Get off. Erica: Welcome y'all to this week's episode of The Turn On with your lovely hosts Erica and Killa Ken, the host with all the friends. Okay that's a lie. She isn't ... Kenrya: Who got ... girl. Erica: That's not you. Kenrya: No. Erica: Anyway, this week we are reading “The Dawn of Nia,” which was written in 2016 by Lauren Cherelle. Lauren Cherelle is just a really dope- Kenrya: She's dope, yeah. Erica: ... person, in addition to being a really great writer. She's co-director of the Black Lesban Literary Collective. Kenrya: Lesban? Erica: Lesban ... I said lesban? Kenrya: Yes ma'am. Erica: You know my good- Midwestern tongue on top of this Invisalign because I'm still rocking the bottom tray, sorry y'all. Lauren Cherelle is co-director of the Black Lesbian Literary Collective. Kenrya: Yes ma'am. Erica: Just overall just a really dope writer and dope activist and so get your wine, get your weed, get your water ... because we like to stay hydrated and juicy... Kenrya: Yes. Erica: ... and sit back, relax and enjoy! Kenrya: “The Dawn of Nia,” by Lauren Cherelle. Taillights, horns and music liven the downtown cityscape as we walk with entwined arms under the midnight sky. The night is still young. The cool April air is suitable for strolling. I, however, want to cut the dilly dally walk short and head home. Deidra disagrees. "We look too good to be alone right now. We should strut down Beale Street." She playfully pulls at the hem of my backless dress. "You did all this to eat an go home?" I indeed put a lot of time and energy into our date by shopping for a new dress and permitting Shonda to press my growing hair. She sent my teeny-weeny afro on vacation for the weekend. Playing dress up for two hours had been thrilling, but Deidra's titillating dress with keyholes along the torso is steering me to a one-track mind. I'm ready to go home and have her to myself, ready to be the only one stealing her attention and sneaking peeps her way. She doesn't mind accompanying me back home after I pull her close and reveal what I really want for dessert. When I pull into the garage and kill the ignition, Deidra caresses my thigh. "Follow me." I meet her at the door and we lock fingers as she leads me upstairs into the bedroom. It isn't like I need a guide. Instead, she's showing me that I'm in store for a night we've yet to experience. She pulls me along, allowing me to revel in her lemon scented perfume and the sway of her hips coated in skin tight fabric. She keeps the lights off when we step into the bedroom. She lets go of my fingers and opens the shutters to illuminate the shadows on our faces. I love the combination of moonlight and Deidra. The soft beam transforms her curves to rolling silk, and it makes her skin different, like she's airbrushed in brown. She looks flawless, as if a divine hand transformed her right before my eyes. She's a goddess now. This is exactly why I wanted to come home. She takes my hand again, pulling me closer to he bed, our final destination. She wraps my arms around her waist, leaning her head back to rest on my shoulder. The mango-infused shea butter in her hair delights my nose. Our faces meet and she whispers, "Do you want me?" "This is exactly why I want to come home," I say, with my fingers inching up her spine. I unzip her dress to unleash the sights and sounds I've been waiting to experience. My palms fall down the phoenix tattoo I noticed the first day we met. The ink masks a scar from a childhood accident. Fingertips falling to the small of her back. Palms, again, tracing the valley that leads to her hips as her dress travels south. Lately, I've noticed a shift in the sex. It's starting to resemble love making. She's craving the experience as much as the act, and she's beginning to trust me. She lets me lead more, but I can't linger or do as I please with her body for too long. A sign of a woman who spent too much time under a man who selfishly touched her. I never let images of him pierce in the canal I love to explore taint our intimacy, but sometimes I wonder whether I truly satisfy her. Do my kisses satiate her appetite for affection? Do my hands quench her thirst for intimacy? Do I cradle her, lift her and fill her as much as she needs? "Yes," she whispers. I pretend she's responding to my inner thoughts, though she's answering a question I spoke into her ear. "You want this?" "Mm-hmm," she moans at the melody. So I continue to provide her with what she desires, a steady tongue as she slides her clit to the gates of ecstasy. She cups the back of my head to draw me closer and intensify her mounting happiness, her hips dancing to the rhythm of our lips. I push my hands beyond her thighs and onto her stomach, feeling the slow rise and fall of her belly and tempo to her aching moans. A plea to gain entry to the city of orgasmic bliss. I have unilateral power to grant her admission, but I choose to deny it. Instead, I rise from my knees and close her legs as I join her in the bed. She continues to lie on her backside, enjoying the residual sensation of my tongue play. I stretch out next to her and stare into her eyes. She smiles, knowing it's time to return the favor. She unzips my dress and laughs when she realizes that there are no undergarments to follow. "You never cease to amaze me," she says and nudges my waist, "Turn over." I roll on my stomach and rest my head on crossed hands. The smile on my face exposes my impatience. Deidra climbs onto my ass, her slick pussy gracing my skin. She leans forward, pressing her goodness into me even more as she massages my shoulders and traces her skilled hands along my waist. "Please don't make me wait," I say. She teases me, her fingertips tickling the contours of my torso, all because I robbed her of an orgasm. "Please," I beg. Finally, she rises from my body and cooler air meets the wetness lingering from my oral play. Chills race down my spine, inducing goosebumps along my arms. She leans forward and rests her full breasts on my neck. Their radiant heat makes me draw a sharp breath. "Now or later," she asks. "Now," I order. Slowly ... slowly ... just as I like, she slides her velvet bosom from my neck to the edge of my back. "Damn," I say when she gradually rubs in the opposite direction. When she reaches my neck, she saturates my lips with kisses and repositions her breasts to do it again ... and again. I love this shit, but prefer that it's short lived which gives me something to look forward to during the week, especially given that I'd asked Deidra to save special massages for weekends. Now that I'm satisfied and spoiled, I want to explore the new bounds of our love making. I'm ready to give her full citizenry to the cum land. I slap her ass and she assumes an all fours position, arching her back to relax her abdominal and vaginal muscles in preparation of my entry. I adjust her a little so she can't maintain the arched stance. I want to constrict her muscles as I insert more fingers than she expects. I know from experience that it feels better when it hurts a bit. The lustful sounds of her crying out to a higher power and interjecting my name? This is exactly why I wanted to come home. Erica: So welcome back. We just read “The Dawn of Nia,” by Lauren Cherelle. Kenrya, thank you for your lovely reading. Will you give us a little more background on this story? Kenrya: Sure. So in “The Dawn of Nia,” we meet Nia, the protagonist, and when we come in she's at the funeral for her mentor who was kind of like her mom, Pat. The book follows what happens after Pat dies and one of the things that happens is that she meets Deidra who is someone who is close ... Well, we find out very quickly, so I don't think this is giving anything away, that Deidra is the daughter of Pat that she never knew existed. Erica: Oh wow. Kenrya: Yeah and kind of pursues her ... Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: ... and hijinks ensue. Erica: Hijinks ensue dot dot dot. Okay so ... dear listeners, we want to kind of take you into the origin story of The Turn On or give you a little bit of background on us. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: When we started this podcast, we thought we would just be reading a bunch of like really smutty, sexy, erotic stories, which, there's nothing wrong with it. We absolutely- Kenrya: And there's a bunch of it on the shelf. Erica: Yeah there is a bunch of good, smutty, erotic stories out there, but we're also finding that there is just a lot of really good black literature- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... that's not being given shine. We're finding- Kenrya: That also includes, like, sex scenes. Erica: Yeah, that just also includes sex scenes, which I think is just so typical of women, you know? We- Kenrya: Yeah, I mean sex is just part of it. Erica: It's a part of who we are- Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: ... and so we shouldn't have to go to a separate special book for sex. We should just have sex as a part of- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... what we do, and the things that we read. We're finding now that a lot of the stories that we're pulling, the excerpts that we're getting, are from just really good stories. Kenrya: Right. Not things that are necessarily categorized as erotica. Erica: Exactly, and so it might have a really great scene in it, which just speaks to how great the writer is ... Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... but it's not necessarily an erotic story. We want to categorize this book as that, and I think the past run we've had recently have just been just really good stories, not necessarily romance or erotica- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... but just really good stories that have a really steamy scene in it. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: This story is one of them. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Just kind of wanted to give that background on it because I, you know, we highly recommend this book, which is a female-female ... Kenrya: Novel. It's female. Erica: ... female-female novel. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Did the author categorize it- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... as romance? Kenrya: No she doesn't. Erica: Yeah, just two women and their ... Kenrya: Their relationship. Erica: I want to say their adventures. Well it is, it is an adventure. Kenrya: It is an adventure. Erica: You know, just two women as they go through the world, and as they go through the world sex is one of those things that happen. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: We just wanted to highlight that and kind of make that a footnote as you kind of see what else we have in store because I'm really excited about some of the not quite- Kenrya: Yeah, some things we have coming up. Erica: ... erotica stuff we have in the hopper for the rest of this season and Season 2 dot dot dot. Did you have anything to add? Kenrya: No I think you got it. Erica: Oh okay, bam, Eloquisha over here. Kenrya: Really. Erica: Well you know I just had to toot my own horn. Toot Toot! Okay, so this scene opens and the two characters Nia and Deidra are leaving a date- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... and one of the things that I thought was really cool was how ... I can't remember who said it but someone was like, "Look, let's go out and walk around and show off how cute you look. You did all this just to get dressed up and go home?" Kenrya: Deidra said that, yeah. Erica: Yeah and Deidra said that and Nia was like ... Kenrya: Bitch, but I want ... I got plans. Erica: ... Bitch I got dressed so you can take this shit off ... Kenrya: Right. Yes. Erica: ... which made me ... I mean I feel like both of them had very ... had different views on ... Kenrya: How the night was going to go? Erica: Well not even how the night was going to go because I think they both probably thought, like, we going to- Kenrya: We going to end up ... Erica: ... we going to end this on an exclamation point, but ... I think Deidra was like, you know, "You got dressed to get dressed up and show off how cute you are-" Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... and Nia was like, "No, I got dressed to seduce your ass to come home and take this off." Kenrya: 45 minutes to get all dressed up ... Erica: Exactly. We ain't even going to make it to this club. Kenrya: Mm-mm (negative). Erica: When you get dressed up for a date, are you dressing for your partner or are you dressing for yourself or are you dressing for all them other hoes? Kenrya: Yeah, I'm not thinking about anybody else. I'm dressing for myself because when I like the way that I look I feel more confident and I feel sexier and I have a better time, you know what I mean? Like I'm not ... Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: ... feeling self conscious when I know that when I walk out the door that I have to take minute and be like, "Bitch yes!" Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: And then I'm dressing for my partner because I want to excite them too. Erica: Yeah, yeah. Kenrya: Yeah, you know. My ass is usually hanging out so. Erica: Yeah, same. I got a whole lot of wagon I be dragging. Kenrya: Yes you do. Erica: You know, so I had a partner who really enjoyed ... seeing other people- Kenrya: React to you. Erica: ... Yeah react. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: I always ... I got to a point ... We went to a party on Thursday- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... and our homegirl had on these shoes, and she was like, "Bitch, these shoes hurt so fucking bad," like to the point where she had a chair- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... and would just drag it around the party with her. She's just dragging the chair around the party with her because it's like my feet hurt too bad. I'm so past that- Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: ... because also I'm not one of those people to ever take my shoes off, like ... Kenrya: Barefoot? Erica: Yeah, I'm just not one of those ... Or what I- Kenrya: Remember that one time you did and you cut your foot? Erica: Oh! Kenrya: That's why you don't do that shit no more. Erica: I was ... Kenrya: And the fuck, we were in a parking garage? Erica: I was no ... I was utterly drunk, like ... Kenrya: Oh yeah yeah. Erica: Like trifling drunk. Kenrya: It was homecoming weekend? Erica: Homecoming weekend- Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: ... trifling drunk, like ... Kenrya: This is like more than a decade ago. Erica: No, it was ... I wish I could say it was a decade ago. Kenrya: I think it was. Erica: No, it wasn't. It was ... Kenrya: Wasn't I still living in New York when that happened? Erica: We were celebrating our 10 years. Kenrya: Oh bitch okay. So not quite. Erica: Yeah, I can't even blame it on you, I can just blame it on thinking that I was young. Drunk as hell, took off my shoes ... Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... going out of Union Station, which is just ... Kenrya: Ohh. Erica: ... festering, like disgusting ... Kenrya: It's a fucking boil. Erica: Took off my shoes and I cut my foot- Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: ... on the fucking escalator. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: So I'm drunk and I wrap my foot in this nasty rag- Kenrya: Ohh. Erica: ... and then I'm like trotting ... it was just disgusting. Kenrya: It was bad. Everybody was twisted though. So nobody even really took it seriously because we were all so drunk. Erica: Yeah, and then I'm like ... You probably saw blood, like a trail of blood- Kenrya: Yeah, it was a trail. It was bad. Erica: So, I always- Kenrya: You have shoes on. Erica: ... I always tie my tetanus shot to our sorority's 10 year anniversary. Kenrya: Yeah ... Erica: Ding ding ding! Kenrya: Our line, yeah. Erica: Yeah our line, it was so trashy and tragically horrible. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: So anyway ... Kenrya: I don't do the whole pain for the sake of fashion anymore. Erica: Well, but I am one of those people if I commit to an outfit, I've committed. If my feet hurt now, I'm just going to suffer until I can't suffer anymore, and then when I can't suffer anymore, bitch lights out- Kenrya: Then it's the worst. Erica: ... close the shop, I'm not going to keep going. I'm just going to- Kenrya: I bring another pair of shoes that match- Erica: Nope. Kenrya: ... so like when we were out Friday too ... Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: ... you didn't come out ... and I had ... Erica: I was taking a good bath. Kenrya: I know. I had flats in my clutch and I as prepared if I had, you know, got switched over that line where they hurt too bad I was just going to switch them shits out and then my partner would've just carried my heels and that would've been that. Erica: Yeah, see I'd just be like, "Okay, I'm ready to go now. You can shut this down. No one's going to have any more fun, my feet hurt, it's done." I mean ... But I also- Kenrya: Because you're miserable when your feet hurt. Erica: But I'm going home when my feet hurt. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Because of whatever shoe I have on, it gives me lasting power. I'm not going to throw on a shoe that I'm walking out the door uncomfortable in anymore. Kenrya: Right. Yeah. Erica: That's the timer, like- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: "Ding! Well done, you've hit your limit." You know? Kenrya: Also, when Erica hits her wall, she hits her wall hard. Erica: Yeah there's no fun, there's no ... once I hit my wall, bitch ... Kenrya: Just let her go. Erica: ... I'm done. Yeah don't even try, and Kenrya knows that now, she's like- Kenrya: Bye bitch. Erica: "Just let that bitch go, and I'll ride with her. Get an Uber home." When I get dressed, I definitely dress for comfort. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: But I also have ... you know, like you get older you start gaining a little weight, getting a little extra cushion ... Kenrya: Little juice. Erica: Little jiggles in the wibbles. I've gotten better about dressing in clothes that are comfortable, but that also show off what I like about myself. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: I'm a round bottom gal, so there's like some country song about a round bottom gal. Kenrya: There is! Yes. Erica: I'm like, "That white man wrote that song for me." Wait, no nevermind. Kenrya: He did not. Erica: I got like, you know- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... slave fantasies in my head when I said that. Anyway, so yeah. I dress in what is comfortable- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... but I also dress in what I think would, you know, what I think my partner would like. I mean if this is the first date, bitch I'm wearing what I want. Kenrya: Really? You don't dress to impress on your first date? Erica: Oh I definitely dress to impress, but it's not like, "Ooh I think he'll like this." Kenrya: Right. Erica: No, it's, you know, but if I'm feeling you and I know oh you love my neckline, then I'm going to show something that shows my neckline. Usually it's like, "Girl look at that juicy booty." Kenrya: You're like I play to my strength. Erica: Yeah, I play to my strengths. Kenrya: Yeah, I just ... So on my first date with my current partner, it was like the opposite of ... The date kind of ... remember, it was not planned, but I was suddenly free and it was like, "Hey we should go out." Then I was happening, and then it wasn't happening because something happened with his phone. I thought that nigga ghosted me. Remember? Erica: Yeah, I remember that! Kenrya: I as like fuck it and got in the shower and washed my hair. I was like- Erica: I remember that! Kenrya: ... I guess we not going out then, fine. I was okay with it. I was washing my hair and then he figured out the phone thing and hit me up and was like, "So, what's up?" And I was like fuck you mean? Erica: I'm 20 minutes into deep conditioning. Kenrya: Right. I'm like, "I am literally twisting my hair right now and finna lotion my body and settle in for a good rom-com, and you know, it's all your fault." He was like, "My phone was fucked up, I'm sorry, let's go out anyway. I don't care if your hair is twisted." And I was like, "Nigga I look like somebody's little homely cousin when my hair is twisted. That ain't it." So I wore a wig. Erica: Yes! Kenrya: I never wear wigs on dates, because I really love my hair and I never want to also give off a- Erica: You know what, you haven't worn a wig lately. Kenrya: Mm-mm (negative). Erica: Ooh I can use them. Kenrya: Yeah. Feel free. Erica: You know those wigs with the baby hair really bother me these days. I think we talked ... Did we talk about this before? Kenrya: No, we did not. Erica: Because the thing is, I love a wig. In my mind, some weave company or wiggery will like- Kenrya: Wiggery. Erica: ... some wiggery wants to sponsor a group of like late 30, early 40's hot girls- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... like hot aunties. In my mind, we're having fabulous photo shoots with- Kenrya: Yes. Erica: ... wigs and shit. Kenrya: At various brunches, switching out your wigs. Erica: No, I want to be hanging out the back of my Jeep- Kenrya: Oh, okay. Erica: ... in some booty shorts- Kenrya: Okay. Erica: ... and like a purple wig. I want them to go all out. Kenrya: I like this. Erica: I love a good wig. Kenrya: You got a whole vision. Erica: Oh I have a vision. I love a wig, I love wigs, but I feel like sometimes we're just going a little too far with that baby hair stuff? Kenrya: Yeah, I don't have any baby hair on my wigs. Erica: Yeah, yeah. I just- Kenrya: I mean that's a lot of work, like you got to do that ... I don't know, I don't mean I do that shit yourself. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: I don't have the patience. Erica: No, I ... You know how people watch ... I do watch ASMR YouTube videos. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: I also watch ones of people making wigs. Kenrya: Making wigs. Erica: Oh, so my crazy soothing videos: ASMR, people cooking food, people decorating cakes- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... people making those little tiny clay- Kenrya: I was just about to say, you be- Erica: ... miniatures. Kenrya: Yeah because you be showing, sending me videos of people making little tiny food too. Erica: Yeah, yep, mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: Lord. Erica: That's real food, but they also make food with clay, and recently it's been wig tutorials. Kenrya: Really. I mean ... Erica: Only wig I own is Prince. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Right there. I'm not a wig lady, but I really enjoy watching just the creativity of black women- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... getting like a $19 wig off Amazon- Kenrya: And making that shit amazing. Erica: ... and turning that shit into amazingness. I just ... Kenrya: Yeah, I use that as a guide to cut one of my wigs, like a video. When I watch videos about this wig people are like, "Yeah it's too heavy, but here's how to shape it up." Erica: Cut it. Kenrya: I bought the little razor, and I got all of that from watching a black chick on the video on YouTube so yeah. That's what's up. Erica: Yeah. I absolutely adore that. Kenrya: I don't wear them often, but I wore a wig on that day because my hair was fucking twisted up, and it was raining. I wore jeans and rain boots ... No, I wore real boots, leather boots, but like over the knee leather boots and a body suit and my fucking cocoon sweater that I wear everywhere. Erica: Everywhere. Yeah, oh I- Kenrya: I was like, "This I what he's going to get and a raincoat." Erica: As I was packing, I saw my favorite fall sweater, and I was like, "Oohh bitch- Kenrya: It's almost time Erica: ... you bout to get worn out, like ugh." I have like a uniform on the weekends. Kenrya: Do you? Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: Oh yeah you do, joggers and shit. Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: Yeah, yeah. Erica: I love a good jogger- Kenrya: I mean me too now. Erica: ... because you don't have to wear underwear with them. Kenrya: Yeah, I always wear underwear but that's because ... juices. Erica: I mean shit, they going to- Kenrya: I be struggling. Erica: ... they going to get out. Kenrya: Oh my god, I was so swampy thighed the other night. It was pretty humid here all week. Erica: Oh my gosh, you would stand outside at a party and I'm like, "Oh," I was like, "I am like a swamp underneath." I just felt so unfresh. Okay, I'm sorry. We are off so- Kenrya: It's fine. Erica: When dressing for a date- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... you dress for what's comfortable? Kenrya: I dress for my ... Well, I'm always comfortable. I don't wear anything that's going to have me fucking, you know, uncomfortable all night because then I'm not going to be happy- Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: ... and then what's the point of us being out if I'm uncomfortable and all sour in the fucking face. Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: I wear what makes me comfortable, but I also wear something that's cute to me and that's cute to him. He's a sneaker head. I hate calling them sneakers but I guess that's what they call themselves. Erica: They're not called tennis shoe enthusiasts? Kenrya: They are not, and they should be, because the sneaker thing is so fucking weird. Erica: T-S-E. He's a TSE. Kenrya: He collects shoes- Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: ... like amazing shoes, and so he has started a collection for me. If we just going to a bar or going to watch a fight or an arcade ... You know, something, then it's great because then I just be out there in my tennis shoes. Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). I love it. Kenrya: Yeah, jeans and tennis shoes and a crop top and I'm good. Erica: Okay. One of the things that ... One of the lines that stood out to me was when Nia said that their romps have transitioned from sex to love making. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Do you think there is a difference? Kenrya: I mean I feel like there's different ... I don't know. I think that there are different modes of sex, you know? Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: Like sometimes it's sweet and it's gentle and y'all are holding hands, you know, while you're doing it. Sure, and sometimes ... Erica: Get a dick slapped across your face. Kenrya: Yeah. Sometimes they fucking your face and sometimes, you know, you're on the little ramp thing and you got your hands cuffed ... I mean it ... And then sometimes it's like some tantric, barely moving, Slow Wine Tony Toni Tone shit. There's all these different- Erica: Slow wine ... Kenrya: Yes, girl. Erica: Sorry. Kenrya: That was a great addition to my sex list, by the way, my playlist. Erica: I have this really great sex playlist- Kenrya: Me too. Erica: ... that someone else made. Kenrya: Really? Erica: It's like the sexiest songs or the sexiest songs you could ever think of or something. It's like 10 hours of it. Kenrya: Oh shit. Erica: I'm like I don't know who having 10 hour sex because I'm sure not. We getting like a good like ... Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: ... not six hours, nine hours. I ain't want to make myself feel- Kenrya: You don't want to put a number on it? Yeah, no I have an amazing list that never gets old to me, but I had another version of it once that had ... I got shamed by the nigga who I was using it with because it had- Erica: Look at my face. Kenrya: I know, yeah whatever. I stopped fucking him a long time ago. It had stuff like ... What's on it right now. It's got like "When We" by Tank, you know that's my fucking jam. Erica: Is that an Apple Music playlist? Kenrya: No, but I can ... It's on there, so I should be able to share it with you. Erica: Yeah, if you made it in Apple Music then you can share. Kenrya: Then you can share, yeah. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: Yeah it's got the slow jams on it, but it also has shit like "Shake It Fast-" Erica: Yeah yeah yeah. Kenrya: ... and- Erica: [inaudible 00:27:06] Kenrya: ... shit that ... it did not have "Yeah" on it. It definitely had "Shake Your Ass" on it. Erica: I'm so mad [inaudible 00:27:17]. Kenrya: Because ... Erica: At some point you got to shake it fast and watch yourself Kenrya: Yeah, and I- Erica: Show one what you're working with. Kenrya: ... I like to switch it up, like we having the soft sweet, and then we can change positions and we can do the hard and the ass shaking and I like to mix it up. He did shame me enough that I made another version of the list that didn't have the fast songs in it. Erica: Fuck you, Ex. Kenrya: I know. Yeah I like a good playlist, but even without having the fast songs in there, it changes ... it sets a different mood depending on what the song is and I like that. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: So I don't know that there's a difference. Maybe I do ... If I'm fucking somebody for the first time, it's probably ... it doesn't feel as intimate or as ... You know, there's no staring into eyes probably, I guess, with the first person, a random person, but maybe there is- Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: ... depending on what our connection is so I don't know. Yeah. What about you, do you think there's a difference? Erica: You know, I think I get what she's saying there, where it seems to be a little more ... Kenrya: An increase in intimacy. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: And a letting down of the guard. Erica: Yeah, but I also feel like I can look back on experiences that I've had with partners and it's been some "shit, like you got to patch that hole in that wall." It was clearly love making- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... because it was that, you know, that intimate ... I think that there's a huge difference between sex and intimacy. Kenrya: Yes. Erica: Let me say that. Kenrya: Absolutely. Erica: Not to cheapen sex, because I do think that sex can be an intimate act ... Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... but sex is also just a physical something that happens and I think that her saying that they've moved from sex to intimacy ... I mean from sex to love making means that there's an increased amount of intimacy- Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: ... or there's been- Kenrya: Or some trust or ... Erica: ... enough shared intimacy- Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: ... to make this feel like there's more of you going into it. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). No, that makes sense to me. Erica: You know, more soul ties being ... I say that so facetiously, but you know. Kenrya: No, that's real. I mean, I have been in relationships, I can think of two people, where it felt like, and I remember saying this like, "You can't be intimate with me without it being sex." So there could be no, "Oh we're just cuddling on the couch- Erica: Girl, why you so loud? Kenrya: ... watching a movie." It had to turn into now there's a hand in my bra, you know what I mean? Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: You are so wrapped up in your penis that you can't just sit here and enjoy this intimate moment with me, without it having to turn into, "Okay now we need to have penetrative sex." Like leave me the fuck alone. Erica: Yeah, I had the problem where there was no intimacy. Kenrya: Unless it was sex. Erica: Unless it was like, couldn't even be ... there was just, "Well I fucked you last night." And it's like, no. Kenrya: Could we sit here together, could we talk ... Erica: We say this all the time, dicks are low in value and abundant. Kenrya: Fucking abundant. Erica: You can find anybody that will fuck and nine times out of ten fuck well. Kenrya: That's not just to say that's not just a dick that's attached to your body, right. Erica: Very clear. Kenrya: Because the strap is also abundant. Erica: Yeah, people know how to work a penis- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Erica: ... whether it's attached to them or they bought it at a store. Kenrya: Exactly. Erica: It is what it is. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: It's the intimacy that brings it, you know, that brings it home. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: I think that women that get dick whipped or dick-matized ... No you need to understand ain't shit special about him doing this. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: If he a trash bag ass man like, girl. Kenrya: As we said before that's usually just the gift that God gave them. Erica: Exactly like he's just trying to- Kenrya: So people will look at his ass. Erica: Yeah he's trying to make use of the shit that the Lord gave him. Yeah so I think that the intimacy part is the part she's really talking about. I mean I don't want to put words in an author's mouth, but I think that, you know- Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: ... by this point there had been enough intimacy or shared intimacy- Kenrya: And built trust, I think. Erica: ... that kind of imbued itself into- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... Girl I just be using words. If I'm using them wrong, y'all let us know. But you know that kind of marinated itself into the situation- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... that made this a little bit more than just what it was. Kenrya: Right. Erica: So yeah. I also love in the writing how Nia really, like, as she's talking through this experience, she's talking about what she's doing to Deidra- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... and how Deidra's responding, and she really took the focus ... I mean it wasn't until she had done pleasuring, and I'm probably not remembering this correctly, but I'm almost positive she was pretty much done pleasuring Deidra before she even talked about how she felt and how- Kenrya: Well except for that she withheld her orgasm. Erica: Yeah bitch. Kenrya: I was like, "Ooh look at you, making her wait." Erica: Ooh girl. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean she ... I feel like that was long game- Kenrya: Yes. Erica: ... trying to make sure she got ... Like when you cum, I want it to be amazing- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... and that's why we're doing this. Kenrya: Yeah, building up some more anticipation, some wait time. Erica: Exactly and she was a thoughtful lover- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... and just ... it was a beautiful scene because she was really focused upon giving Deidra this- Kenrya: "Upon." I'm sorry. Erica: Focused upon. Focused on giving Deidra this really amazing experience- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... and what can I do. And she got off- Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: ... you know, as a result of it. I mean now I think, again, I think that's what makes you a good lover, if you want to- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: It's a dance, and you got to remember that it's ... If you're focused on you, you can't be ... Kenrya: She's slaying solo. Well, it can't be solo, but if you're with a partner, or multiple- Erica: I'll tell you. Kenrya: ... then it's a group project. It's a group dance. Erica: It's a group project. Kenrya: It's a step. It's coordinated. Erica: And don't be that group member that don't do your job and then get a good grade. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: You know? Yeah, I really like that part about it. Girl ... Kenrya: What? Erica: I have in here note sensual massage. Kenrya: Oh. Erica: I think this is just reflective of the fact that this is two women- Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Because I have never had a good massage from a man. Kenrya: Oh I have. Erica: Did it end up with a dick in your back? Kenrya: No. Erica: Oh. Kenrya: It was the next day. I mean the sex was the night before and- Erica: Oh okay. Kenrya: ... the morning too, but this was just like another separate, "Let me just rub you down." Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: Because I had taken a shower, and you know I be ashy, I got eczema. I have to be good about my moisturizing situation, and I was starting to moisturize myself, and he was like, "Let me do that. Lay down." Erica: That was nice. Kenrya: And it just turned into a whole ... best massage I've ever had that wasn't from a professional. Erica: Wow. Yeah. Kenrya: Yeah. And I get them regularly, but every other massage I've ever had from a man has been- Erica: He be like- Kenrya: Exactly. Erica: That's him like- Kenrya: Them little fingertips on your shoulder. Erica: This is the noise of four fingertips barely- Kenrya: Yes. Just barely touching you, and then here's a dick. Erica: And he be like boop! Dick in your back. Kenrya: Exactly. It has always struck me ... A lot of times I find myself laughing when they do that, because it's such a fucking transparent ploy. Erica: Because let's be clear, in the porn when they do the massage things- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... they be massaging the fuck out of them people. If this was something you learned from porn, at least- Kenrya: Do it right. Erica: ... do it right- Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: ... based on the porn. Kenrya: Yeah it's so fucking half-assed. And it's always just a ... To me it's just a ploy to get your shirt off, right? Because first it's like, well you got to take off your shirt. I'm thinking of a very specific instance. And then it's like, "Well, you need to take off your bra because I can't really get at your back, and I don't want to get lotion on your bra, so you should go on- Erica: This is so specific Kenrya: Yes, "... and take that off." So now you're lying there, you got your breasts out- Erica: Titties out. Kenrya: ... down on this nigga's bed or couch or whatever the fuck and hoping you don't catch nothing, because niggas, and then he puts them little fingertips on your shoulder. Erica: It's probably so you going to have to do all this shit for- Kenrya: Fuck you to do this ... and now your dick is out. Erica: Oh you know what, I did have a partner who was really good at massaging. Kenrya: Yeah? Erica: Oh he was really good. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: He was really good at massaging and stretching, because I was working out- Kenrya: Oh. Yeah yeah yeah. Erica: ... a lot, and he would stretch the fuck out of me. Then he'd get to that groin stretch- Kenrya: Right. Erica: ... things would happen, but nonetheless it was ... I did have a good, I mean it would end up with sex, but it was a good- Kenrya: But think about it. That's one person out of how many niggas have tried to get you undressed under the pretext of giving you a massage over the years. Erica: Look, it don't work. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Let's just say it. If you ain't the specific people we talking about, just hang it up. Kenrya: If I let you do it, it's literally ... I'm not stupid. I know that you're just trying to get me out of your clothes, and that you're too fucking immature to just take them off me, or ... You know what I mean? Erica: Yeah, like come on, let's be better about this. Kenrya: Yeah. Or like the tickling. Have you ever had a man ... Erica: Oh my god I will fucking kick you in the chin if you try tickling me. Kenrya: I had a man who that would be how he would get close to me? Is he would tickle me. Erica: That would dry my pussy up so quick. Kenrya: Oh my god. But I liked him. So you know it's always like you're just allowing this shit to happen- Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: ... just like with the massage. You know what the ploy is, but you want to go ahead and get your nut. So you just go ahead and let it happen. Like I said, half the time I'm giggling to be quite honest, because I can't hold that shit in because it's fucking stupid. Erica: Yeah you're giggling at him not with him. Kenrya: Yes. Not with him. I'm sure they think that ... But no, no sir. Erica: "She like this." No, you're a goofball, but you got really good shoulders. Kenrya: No. This is ridiculous, just bring out the dick. Let's go. Yeah. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: Uh-huh. But yeah, tickling also, in that same category. Erica: Trash. T-rash. Kenrya: Yeah, tell you who that was later. Erica: Who? Oh eww. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Eww. Kenrya: Only in the beginning, but yeah. Erica: Yeah because also I want someone that's confident- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... and self-assured and I feel like tickling is one of those- Kenrya: That ain't it. Erica: ... "Come here little girl- Kenrya: Oh no! Erica: ... let me see if I can touch ..." I mean it's just weird like don't tickle. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Ooh sorry y'all, I hit the stuff. Kenrya: It is. Erica: We'll be in our new studios next recording. Kenrya: We will. Erica: In this story, as you explained, Nia and Deidra ... What have ... Well, I don't know if they would have met each other, but they both were very connected without really knowing it, you know? Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: I'll tell a little story about myself. My mother had a best friend in high school. Her best friend lived across the street and was her best friend all through high school. They were homegirls. My mama go out one night, meet this man. They started dating. This man comes home, comes to my mama's house to meet the family, and he comes to the house. He mentions, "Hey, my aunt live across the street- Kenrya: Shut up. Erica: ... in that house." And this was her best friend's mom. Kenrya: Wow. Erica: So it was one of those situations were it was like, whoa this world is small as hell. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: I feel like Nia and Deidra have that similar situation- Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: ... where Deidra is Nia's mentor slash fake mom's long lost daughter. Kenrya: Damn daughter. Yeah. Erica: Have you had a situation like that where you might have been with somebody and then, you know, after a few conversations you're like, "Damn. 20 more minutes we would have met through this person." Kenrya: I don't think I have, but my family is full of those stories. Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: So my family is fucking huge. My father is one of 15 kids. Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: We from Mississippi. My family mostly now lives in Cleveland and at least- Erica: Great Migration shout out. Kenrya: ... a couple of my cousins ... Yes, shout out to the Great Migration ... Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: ... have been out on dates with people. I remember once my cousin in particular was like, "Yeah my Uncle Frog ..." and this chick was like, "Nigga, I got an Uncle Frog." They was cousins. One of my cousins brought somebody home to my Auntie Berta house and- Erica: How do you got an Uncle Frog? That is the coolest fucking name on earth. Kenrya: Oh we got all kinds of interesting names. And then my Auntie ... He brought this chick home and it's his grandma, his big ma, and my Auntie was like, "Nigga that's your cousin." So then she was just over at the house with family. That happens a lot in my family. Yeah, luckily it's never happened to me, but if I met anybody with any of the last names there associated with my daddy's side, I'd be scared. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: Because it's not that. It's a lot of us, but- Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: ... you know what I mean? They're not the most common names all over. Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So my high school boyfriend was my mom's other best friend in high school's nephew. Kenrya: Shut up. Erica: Yeah. So, you know, we grew up ... It's hard to tell the story without giving all my deets, but I changed high schools my freshman year- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... and so I came into this high school in a community that my mom grew up in, and you know, it was like ... So I finally transferred to a school where all my momma people lived and the teachers, you know, taught my mama- Kenrya: Wow. Erica: ... or went to school with my mama. One of those really small, close communities. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: Started dating ... Well, got really cool with this girl, we became best friends, her daughter is now my goddaughter, and she is my ... So I was telling my mom and my granny or somebody and mentioned her last name and she was like, "That's so and so's niece." I was like, "Oh shit." At the time, we had ... No ... Yeah, and I think at the time I was simultaneously hollering at her brother and you know, dating her brother. Kenrya: Oh. Oh. Erica: Yeah. We didn't date that long because I clearly remember going out doing high school hoe shit with her. So I don't think I was dating her brother that long. But unless it was one of those ... Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah. Erica: But again it's one of those like really small neighborhoods- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... really small communities where everybody knows everybody. I mean I go home and see my nieces and nephews playing with kids and I'm like, "Oh, I went to school with her mama." You know? Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: One of those communities, which, you know, is a blessing and a curse. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: I mean it's a blessing for me because I ain't there no more- Kenrya: Right. Erica: ... but I can only imagine if I were living there. Kenrya: Yeah. As your adult life trying to ... Yeah I can't think of any. I do know that we have some folks in our friend group who have met somebody and then found out it was an ex of somebody else's. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: And I've definitely fucked people who my friend's have fucked, because HBCU. Erica: Yeah. HBCU's [inaudible 00:43:30]. Kenrya: And it wasn't even til after college that it happened so it was really like, who gives a fuck? Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: Yeah I mean I can think of somebody right now that's fucked at least like three or four of us so ... Erica: I know one that I'm thinking, I'm like, "Ugh- Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: ... he ain't deserve to smell none of these pussies," but, whatever. Kenrya: Oh. I know which one you thinking of. Erica: We make poor decisions and ... Well, we make decisions based on the information- Kenrya: That we have at the time. Erica: ... that we have at the time. Kenrya: Yeah. It is what it is. Erica: Who am I to judge? Kenrya: That's right. Erica: Also, with Nia and Deidra, I think part of the reason that they are so ... Well, from what I've read of the book ... Well, my interpretation of the book, I feel like part of the reason they're so drawn and so into one another, partly, is because they experience this really heavy trauma loss. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: You know? This heavy relationship ... Kenrya: Yeah, although, you know- Erica: Well, I don't want to say loss because- Kenrya: Yeah because Deidra's not close to her mom. Erica: ... Deidra didn't really lose her mom. Kenrya: Exactly, she wasn't close to her, but ... Erica: Oh you know what, let me say this. Nia lost and someone came in- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... and filled that space. Kenrya: Someone who was closely tied to that person, and you know she talks about being drawn to her- Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: ... and I agree with you. I think that part of why she feels quote on quote drawn to her is because she thinks that maybe she'll fill some of the whole that is left from Pat. Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: Yeah, I've been there. Erica: Girl. Haven't we all. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: You want to share your story or ... Kenrya: Sure. So, I was married and then divorced, thank God. I think that part of why I ended up with the person who I married is because when I met him, I was grieving the loss of the man who I was with before. Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: He died pretty horribly in an accident- Erica: Tragic accident. Kenrya: Yeah. I was still trying to pick myself back up. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: I was very raw and pretty transparent about what was hurting me, and what I thought I wanted- Erica: That there was a hole and the hole wasn't shaped and- Kenrya: ... and that there was a hole. Erica: ... he was able to come in and ... Kenrya: I mean his picture was still a picture of us up on my wall- Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: ... when I started dating, you know, the next person ... Like all of this. I think that it was literally that I wanted somebody to kind of cling onto because I was- Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: ... feeling alone and I was tired or ... I got tired of talking to my friends about it because I didn't want to depress anybody and I was in grief. That was the beginning of my therapy journey is I was seeing someone for grief. But to have someone who was not connected to that, who didn't know him, whose purpose in my life wasn't to sit and talk through the trauma that ensued from that. Just, I guess, kind of felt good, because I was so honest about the hole, and narcissists are really good at molding themselves- Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: ... into whatever shape you leave for them. I ended up in a, you know, a not great situation. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: So absolutely, I have been there. Erica: I think with ... So with my last marriage ... Last marriage, or my marriage that I'm now out of, I think it was that, but it was a little different in the sense that we shared. Kenrya: Y'all lost together. Erica: We'd had a lot of loss together. He lost his mom and I lost my mom a few months later. Kenrya: Yeah. Trauma bonds are real. Erica: Then we had multiple miscarriages and I think that that made it just ... I mean I think leaving a marriage for anyone, choosing to divorce, even if you're positive that I don't need to be with this person- Kenrya: It's still a tough thing. Erica: ... it's still tough divorcing. I think it made it that much more difficult, having gone through such loss together- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... you feel like we have this shared ... this bond. You were with me when I lost my mom, I was with you when you lost your mom- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... we lost these two children together. It's so difficult because you feel like this is the one person in the world that- Kenrya: Understands. Erica: ... understand, and that gets me, but if I was being truly honest to myself, we were grieving these two situations separately. Kenrya: Right. Alongside each other but not together. Erica: But not together. Yeah so, it's definitely ... I mean and not to say that, because you know, I do think that sometimes loss brings people together and they might be able to navigate it well, but I also think that such significant trauma kind of, not kind of, clouds your judgment- Kenrya: Mmm. Erica: ... it dulls your senses. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: You're not able to ... You're not going into things as clear as you normally would. Kenrya: Right. Yeah. Erica: It can kind of cause things to go awry. Kenrya: Well, and I think it can also make it difficult to feel like you can leave. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: If you know that this person has experienced loss, you don't want to heap another loss to their pile. Erica: I remember saying that same thing in therapy- Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: ... and my therapist was like, "Look, you're not this man's first trauma, and you will not be his last." Kenrya: You won't be his last. And don't traumatize yourself for the sake of saving somebody else. That is the root of fucking co-dependency. Erica: Yep. Yep. Kenrya: Yeah, but it can be hard to get there, especially not without therapy. Erica: Girl, not without therapy. Once again, our episodic shout out to therapy. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: Man we need to do like air horns or something every time we do- Kenrya: I need to get like an app like, you knoKid Fury has been using that fucking app to use sounds whenever he is doing Nicki Minaj. Erica: Yeah, exactly exactly. So we need something like that so that we can just, you know, our periodic therapy shout out. Well, now that we said therapy shout out, I think this wraps up this episode as The Turn On. Kenrya: Right, it's like The Turn On bingo. Bitch they got therapy. Erica: We made it to therapy. All right, so this has been this week's episode of The Turn On. These are your lovely hosts Erica and Kenrya, two hoes making it clap. Kenrya: Making it clap. Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme song is from Brazy. We want to hear from y'all. Send recommendations for books you want us to read on the show, and all the questions that you want us to answer related to sex and all the other stuff. You can send those to [email protected]. Please take a moment to review the show, five stars only please, and subscribe to us in your favorite podcast app. Then follow us on Twitter at The Turn On Pod, and Instagram at The Turn On Podcast, and head on over to TheTurnOnPodcast.com to find links to the books that we feature, transcripts of our shows, and info on all the guests that we talk about. Bye! |
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be. Archives
September 2022
Categories
All
|
RSS Feed