Episode 7 | We Don't Have To Take Our Clothes Off

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SHOW NOTES
On Episode 7 of The Turn On, we read from Talia Hibbert's "Bad for the Boss" and extol the joys of dry humping.

Resources:

• Book, "Bad for the Boss": Amazon
• Author, Talia Hibbert: Website | Twitter | Instagram 

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TRANSCRIPT
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Kenrya: Come here, get off.

Erica: Welcome to this week's episode of the Turn On. Today, we're going to read from “Bad For The Boss,” by Talia Hibbert, which was published in 2017. Sit back, relax, get your wine, get your weed, get you whatever you need and enjoy.

Kenrya: “Bad For The Boss,” by Talia Hibbert.
 
"We need rules," she took a deep breath and his lips were so close to her that she could almost taste him, "Like no sex at work, no allowing the personal to interfere with the professional."
 
"I get it," he murmured. "You need guarantees, a safety net. I can give you that."
 
"Can you?" She didn't mean to say the next words out her mouth, didn't mean to, but was ultimately glad that she did. "I believe that you'd throw me under the bus to say the company's reputation." He drew back as though she'd slapped him.
 
"What? No, Jenny."
 
"It's okay, I understand it. You spent years building Brown Cow, and you've known me for days, that's just how things work."
 
"Jennifer," he bent over his voice low and insistent. "I wouldn't do that, not ever. I started this, I would never let you suffer because I want you. I leave women better off, not worse."

Kenrya: It took her a moment to realize, but she believed him, she did. She also thought he'd missed the point entirely, but that didn't matter, she was the one getting attached. Theo hid nothing about who he was, he'd offer her the world probably, just not himself, but she could have a taste, couldn't she? She deserved that, didn't she? Yes. Thanks to her heel, she didn't have to rise up on her toes to kiss him. She simply tipped her head back and raised her lips to his until the breath between them became a whisper. His hands tightened around her waist as he brushed his lips over hers and traced the tender inside of her lip with his tongue. She whimpered and he groaned in response, pulling her closer, clutching at her hips and dragging her against his body. She was so drunk with desire, she barely noticed as he gathered her skirt in his fist, dragging up the fabrics to expose her bare legs to the cool air.

Kenrya: But when his fingers skimmed along the edge of her thong, she gasped against his lips. "Let me touch you, Jenny," he whispered. "I need it, I need ... He broke off his voice ragged, his hands desperate as they sent stars shooting up her nerve endings.
 
"Yes," she gasped. "Please." With a moan, he kissed her again hard and punishing. His fingers slid beneath the fabric of her underwear to stroke the melting heat of her pussy, parting her swollen folds. She shuddered around him as he eased his finger inside her, rubbing rhythmically against the spots so sensitive she felt almost delirious with pleasure.

"That's it," he murmured as she whimpered in his arms. "You want more, Princess?"
 
"Please," she said again. He slid another finger into her dripping entrance, then curved his palm over her mound, so that the heel of his hand nudged against her clit with each thrust. Jen clutched at his shoulders, her knees weakening while he worked her mercilessly.
 
"There we go. Anyone could see you down there, you know, grinding all over my hand. You're such a good girl, Jenny, but you're bad from me, aren't you?"

"Yes," she gasped mindlessly, her heart pounding as she writhed against him. "Yes. More. Please." He pumped harder, faster, his forceful movements pushing her closer and closer so that perfect precipice.

And then she was gone, falling, soaring. He pressed hot kisses against her neck as his pace slowed, stroking her gently and easing her down from the height of her ecstasy. "Oh Christ," she says softly as reality filtered in. "Wait, aren't there cameras in here?"

"Shh, I took care of that. Don't worry." Her panic faded.
 
"Oh, thank God"
 
"... or me." With a devilish smile, he replaced her thong and let her skirt fall. Then, holding her gaze, he slipped his fingers into his mouth and sucked them clean.
 
Biting her lip, Jen looked down at the erection, clearly straining against his suit trousers. "Do you want me to?"

"It's okay." He smiled, but his eyes were still hot, grazing her skin like a caress. "We'll do that another time."

"Do what?" She stammered, and he laughed. "Oh, Jenny, you're so sweet." He pulled her into his arms, kissed her forehead, then her nose. "Come on. You want some truffles?"
 
Jen paused, thinking about the collection of condoms currently sitting in her purse. Then she thought about one of Aria's many rules; “Don't put in any effort for at least the first five orgasms.”
 
“You know what?” she asked, moving back toward the center of the capsule. "I think I do."

Erica: Welcome back. We just heard an excerpt from “Bad For The Boss, “which was written by Talia Hibbert in 2017. This story is an excerpt from a larger book. The book, “Bad For The Boss” is an Asian male, Black woman romance. Jen is the main character, Theo is her lover. The story starts with Jen in the beginning, experiencing some trauma as a kid, and then it fast forwards to her as a young adult working in a advertising firm in London, and she gets involved with her boss Theo. So, it's about their story and as Kenrya would say, hijinx and lots of sex ensues. So, what are your thoughts about this story, Kenrya? Overall, you like it?

Kenrya: I do. We wanted to do an interracial romance because it's a thing that if anyone who reads within the romance genre, it's a big thing, but we did not want to do one with a white man.

Erica: Yeah. And one of the great things about this story that I like is that she's a Black woman, her lover is an Asian man, but it's not "a thing." Like you know he's an Asian guy, I think the first time you learn that he's an Asian guy is he's pushing through a crowd, and knocks someone and they're like, "Hey, that Asian guy kicked it over." Something like ... but it's not like a--

Kenrya: It's not a fetish, It's not--

Erica: Yeah, it's not like she walked into his home and smelled green tea, saw ... you know like none--

Kenrya: Shoes lined up by the door.

Erica: Exactly. It's not that, it's just there are two people and there might be some descriptors, and there is a little ... what's the word for a little story?

Kenrya: A vignette?

Erica: Not a vignette, oh my gosh. Anecdote about him, why he uses this name versus that name, but it's not like a thing.

Kenrya: Okay. I'm going to start calling anecdotes little stories.

Erica: Little stories, little baby stories, little stories. So, we open this scene with her saying that they need a contract or they got to set rules because she's--

Kenrya: ... fucking her boss.

Erica: Yeah, she's in a vulnerable position. Have you ever been in a situation where you've--

Kenrya: Like a power dynamic?

Erica: Well, not even a power dynamic, but where you said to this person, "Look, we can do this, but we have to have rules and we ... Because, I mean, I think we all have rules in our head, but it has to be--

Kenrya: ... articulated.

Erica: ... articulated like that with a partner?

Kenrya: Kind of. I mean, but it was definitely on some, we're going to be friends with benefits, so it was like outlining, what are the parameters of that? Where does the friendship end and the sex begin? How do we jump back into the friendship when we're done with it?

Erica: Yeah, I think I've had a situation that was like that, and we had a TCOH policy, a take care of home policy.

Kenrya: What's that? Explain.

Erica: That's a policy where it was just home, meaning our lives and we weren't ... That makes it seem like we were married fucking around. No, it was just, things could get messy if this becomes more than just the two of us fucking, so let's make sure that we are--

Kenrya: Protecting our other--

Erica: ... making this sexual relationship, where it's just sex and we ain't talking to each other's home boys, home girls--

Kenrya: Don't be messy.

Erica: Yeah, like let's just take care of everything outside of this.

Kenrya: Okay, how did that work out?

Erica: It worked out. I mean, I think we just kind of ... you know what, I think he ended up getting serious about someone, and so in our take care of home policy, all right, well, you go do your thing and--

Kenrya: Have fun.

Erica: Yeah. I mean, it was actually a good situation.

Kenrya: Yeah, all right.

Erica: It was a good situation. Also, one of the things that I liked ... well, actually I hated this. How he kept calling her Jenny, and she was like "No. Nigga, it's Jennifer."

Kenrya: Right.

Erica: And he was just insistent on being like, "No, but you're my Jenny."

Kenrya: And on one hand, it's like oh, pet name, on the other, she's like, "That's not my name." That's not my name, that's not my name. That is how my daughter used to sing that song.

Erica: Oh my gosh. I had to laugh because I'm that type of person, like I will give you a name that no one else calls you because I need you to remember, if you ever in a big ass room and you hear somebody say, so—and—so, it is me.

Kenrya: Well, it's one of the ways that we build intimacy. Yeah, without even consciously realizing that that's what we're doing when we give each other nicknames. And I think that that's what he's trying to do with her, to take it out of the realm of, you are my employee, and in that space, you are Jennifer, and in this space where we are fucking or not fucking, and you are Jenny.

Erica: Yeah, because it's one of those like ... My current partner, he hates it when I call him baby, because he's like--

Kenrya: I'm a grown ass man.

Erica: I'm not your baby, your son is your baby, so—and—so can be your baby. I'm not your baby. And I'm like, "Oh."

Kenrya: It make you feel a way?

Erica: In my pants.

Kenrya: Why does ... oh, okay.

Erica: Well, the first time he said, he was like, "Nah, Nah, Nah, save that baby shit for somebody else." And it kind of turned me on because I was like, "Oh, okay. I like it. I like it." Do you have a nickname for your partner? You don't have to share it, but--

Kenrya: No, I'm not. Kind of, yes, but it's like a joke. And he a little bit hates it, but thinks it's funny.

Erica: I have a coworker who ... I'm going to tell my story, but I have a coworker who has a husband and she calls him ... say his name is James, she calls him Derrick. It's a whole different name. And she calls him that, so much so, she was like "at our bridal shower, you know they ask, do you know the grooms full name?" And they were like, "Yeah, James Derrick Jones." And they were like, "No, nothing to do with Derrick." Because like, "Why the fuck she call him Derrick?" It's like, I don't know. I find that so funny, but yeah ... I have a special name for my partner and it usually ... I mean, I use it often, but it gets syrupy and sappy when I'm asking for some shit or about to get some dick. And I actually like it, I mean, I'm queen of nicknames. I give everybody a nickname. I give everyone a nickname, but I also respect that people don't quite, I'm like, "Is it okay if I call you lil duderbop?"

Kenrya: Well, good. How do you feel when people give you nicknames? Does your partner have something that he calls you?

Erica: Yes, and I love it. It makes me sweet.

Kenrya: Right, because you feel a little bit rubbed the wrong way when he called her Jenny in the books, so I'm like--

Erica: Well, I thought it rubbed the wrong way when she was like, no, and he was just like, but I'm going to do it anyway, and it's just like--

Kenrya: Nigga, respect.

Erica: Yeah, boundaries.

Kenrya: Boundaries.

Erica: And she keeps it going, and if y'all like it, I love it.

Kenrya: Her decision to make.

Erica: So, to the nasty part.

Kenrya: It's always the nasty part.

Erica: To the nasty part. I love that they don't ... there's no penetration. Well, there was no dick in puss sex, D in P.

Kenrya: Right, because he does penetrate with his fingers.

Erica: Yeah. When I read this, this reminded me of ... I was listening to Dan Savages' Savage Love podcast, and he was answering a question from a listener or something, and someone asked, "How do you feel about ... It was something about foreplay or sex or something like that. And he was telling this woman that men and women should ... well, heterosexual couples should embrace sex more like gay couples. And this is what he said, I don't have any experience or any other knowledge other than his anecdote. But he was saying that gay couples, sex is not just sex, it's mutual masturbation or just a bunch of oral sex. And he said, I think men will be less hesitant to have sex all the time if every time they had sex resulted in them getting fucked.

Kenrya: Somebody having to put something in them every time.

Erica: And so, I really like that this is a good sexual experience for the both of them, but it doesn't involve D in P. Dick in Puss.

Kenrya: Yeah. And also, I mean, yes, one thinking about the fact that in some situations there is no dick to be found and not everyone is interested in introducing an artificial one in order to get off. And also, for folks who have disabilities that don't allow them to be able to have penetrative sex, well Shit, they have ways that they get off too. And we can't always be focused on that. In my experience, I have found that men tend to be more focused on the penetrative aspect of it. Like to me, it is all sex. I actually don't tend to use the phrasing of foreplay because to me, it's oral sex, its titty says, this ... all of it is sex to me, even if it's a 15 minute session of you just laying here, lazily rubbing my clit. To me, we are still engaged in an intimate sexual act, and it doesn't even have to result in somebody coming necessarily. It is just us enjoying each other in that way, and to me that is sex. It does not have to culminate in somebody getting penetrated.

Erica: I mean I feel like we ... can we just have just a 15 second praise break for dry humping? It was like--

Kenrya: In high school it was everything.

Erica: Yeah. It was like we completely, as soon as we started doing D in P--

Kenrya: We just forget this thing that first got us off.

Erica: Totally forgot about our good friend dry humping, that got us through many situations. This used to be your home boy, now you just--

Kenrya: Toss that nigga to the side.

Erica: Damn homie, at high school you was the man, homie.

Kenrya: We shady.

Erica: Y'all just totally left your homeboy dry humping alone in the dust.

Kenrya: But it can be really great, especially in public places.

Erica: Oh, girl. Yeah, yeah, okay. I'm trying to figure it out. What do I do now? Like you do all that and he'd be like, "You nasty."

Kenrya: And then you got something to think about for later.

Erica: Who raised you?

Kenrya: A little grind, inconspicuously.

Erica: And again, just going back to it all, I think that there's so much to be said for everything else other than just ... because let's be real, we've been running stats on our Twitter and on our social media accounts about how not every woman cums vaginally--

Kenrya: Especially when they're having sex with men.

Erica: Especially when they're having sex with men.

Kenrya: Yeah, women who have sex with women, and non—binary folks and folks who don't have penises tend to cum much more often.

Erica: Because ...

Kenrya: They are not relying on a penis.

Erica: Exactly. And so, we forget that there is so much more fun in just--

Kenrya: Enjoying your body in ways that don't always involve the inside.

Erica: We don't have to take our clothes off.

Kenrya: Exactly.

Erica: ... to have a good time. Didn't one of our friends enjoy this song? I hear this song and I think about our friend that we were group texting this morning.... Does she have a story about this song? Okay, yeah. I hear that song and I can't remember this story, but I feel like there's always a random story associated with her.

Kenrya: Yes, she does.

Erica: Nonetheless, I think we just need to care. I just think we just need to remember that it's so much more than just ... and now that I think about the stories that we're reading, there's so much more about it, about just leading up to dick and puss, than it is actual. Because there's only so much, I mean, a good dick in puss is one thing, but I think that there's--

Kenrya: There's more to it than that.

Erica: Because also, your entire body responds to sensual touch.

Kenrya: Yes.

Erica: ... more than just your vaginal canal. And let's be honest, a whole lot of men can't find your G—spot and that's really what you're going for when we're doing dick in puss penetration.

Kenrya: A lot of them are not even thinking about the fact that that's a thing--

Erica: Exactly.

Kenrya: ...let alone how they need to position themselves to hit it.

Erica: So I, for one, when I run for president, the first thing ... when I become president, the first thing that I am going to do is mandate more dry humping and fingering.

Kenrya: Yes, sure. Fingering has become something that I have enjoyed more as an older person, I think, because I know what they should be reaching for instead of do they. I hated it.

Erica: As a kid? Well, not ... let me not say that.

Kenrya: I hated it as a--

Erica: Newbie in the sex game.

Kenrya: Yes. It just felt like you don't know what you're doing, this friction doesn't feel good, that's not where I wanted. Ah, that angle was bad, you up against my pubic bone. Hey, how bout you take your hands out of there?

Erica: Yeah. So, I started watching “Euphoria” last night--

Kenrya: It's so good.

Erica: I couldn't even get through the whole fucking episode.

Kenrya: It took me two tries to get through the first episode.

Erica: It's really tough especially as a parent watching it. And one of the things that I realized watching this, they don't know what the fuck they doing. Don't nobody know what the fuck they're doing when it comes to their bodies or how sex works. Remember the scene with the kid and he was having sex with the girl, and he grabbed her by the throat?

Kenrya: Yes.

Erica: And it was just like, "Well, that's what they do in the porn."

Kenrya: And she was like, "Why would you think I would like that?"

Erica: Exactly. And it's like we're just out here just--

Kenrya: Just doing what we think--

Erica: Just learning shit bad.

Kenrya: But how do you learn it? Porn is ... well, I guess maybe you look for porn that's not shot by men, and--

Erica: What 17—year—old is looking ethical porn?

Kenrya: Exactly. I mean, that's a tough one. I mean, I thought for--

Erica: It was definitely trial and error for me.

Kenrya: That's what I was about to say, that is how I came to know many things.

Erica: Trial and error, and then getting to a point where I was open enough to ask and seek answers.

Kenrya: Well, and also not accept bullshit. I think that's the other side of that coin. To be like, I don't like that shit, stop doing that shit.

Erica: Yeah. But I mean, shit, I'm damn there 40 and just now I got to that point, just now got to that point. It was hard to watch as a parent, but also just thinking back of when I was younger. I mean, I don't think I was that young doing this stuff ... maybe I was. Yeah, I was. But anyway, just thinking back, you're just so unsure and unknowing and just ... I always say, you don't even know what you don't know. You don't even know what you don't even know. And that's what it is with sex, these kid's like, oh my God, y'all are trash, this is horrible.

Kenrya: But unfortunately, I think that's not just the thing with kids. I definitely made trash ass decisions and in my 20s and--

Erica: Shit, even the 30s.

Kenrya: Yeah. I mean, yes, absolutely matter of fact, in my 30s where it was situations that I should not have been in with people who I should have walked away from right away. Luckily, it only took me one time to know that the fire was hot and walk away. But absolutely, it's a journey. Yeah.

Erica: Yeah. And I think that this goes back to the conversation we had in another episode, we were talking about just trying to be parents. I mean, I don't need my kid coming to me asking me about the intricate details of sex, but at the same time, I rather you do ask me than ask some kid, or God forbid, Porn Hub. I mean, yes, Porn Hub is a friend, you might find it in my favorites. However, that's not where I need you to go learning things.

Kenrya: Yeah, it's difficult. I want to go back a little bit to something where we were talking about earlier, about the idea of sex not just being penetrative, and how you were saying that even with these books, the excerpt that we've been reading, there's a lot that comes before that and I think that's important for us to note. I think that when folks hear erotica, there is one thing that they think of, right? I want us to like make sure that we're bringing the full--

Erica: Complement.

Kenrya: Yeah. The tease that comes before it.

Erica: The tease is the best part.

Kenrya: Yeah. The conversations that you have, the shit that you talk on text, the things that you don't say, but that you're thinking, that you're planning for next time, like the touch that is not sexual but is intimate and puts you in concert with each other before you get to that point. All of that is erotica, and as we're going through the course of the show, we'll be highlighting those parts too. It won't always be that somebody is necessarily having some type of "sex" because the erotic is larger than that.

Erica: So much larger. Sex and, sex and--

Kenrya: Sex and, sex and, exactly. Always.

Erica: Speaking of intimacy, at the end, after she cums, he puts her panties back on her and licks his finger. He licks her dead in the eye. Licks his fingers clean.

Kenrya: My God.

Erica: I was like, oh, he's setting this shit up for later.

Kenrya: Yeah. When I was reading it, I had to take a little breath.

Erica: I was like, oh, okay, he talking shit.

Kenrya: Yes, without saying a word. The erotic.

Erica: That erotic, that erotic. Oh, it was so great. Also, I learned a new rule in here that was just fantastic.

Kenrya: What?

Erica: Don't put any effort for the first five orgasms.

Kenrya: Don't subscribe to that. Why do you think it's fantastic though? I'm sorry--

Erica: I think it's fantastic because I think that women tend to want to ... first, let's remember, she's like 26--

Kenrya: And he's in his 40s?

Erica: Yeah, he's 40. It takes me back to that article that we shared earlier this week where it's like why high performing women--

Kenrya: ... end up with toxic men.

Erica: ... end up with toxic men, because we're so used to working for everything that if we have to work for what should be easy--

Kenrya: It feels like we're--

Erica: We're like, it's going to pay off. Like if I'm working for this man's love, then I'm earning something great. So, I shouldn't have to lay there and fucking play with myself in order to cum with you, and this is our first time--

Kenrya: I dig that.

Erica: ... you still should be pulling all the stops. I don't take it as like a, I need to be a lazy lover at all.

Kenrya: Okay, yeah, because because I'm not enjoying that. I want to be an active participant because that's what helps get me off.

Erica: Yeah, I think it's a, we should be ... Again, it should be a dance--

Kenrya: Yeah, but no extraordinary measures.

Erica: Yeah, it shouldn't be, you finish and then I'm laying there like, what's going on? It should not have to be work.

Kenrya: They were not doing this again.

Erica: It should be, we're enjoying ourselves, and then next thing you know, orgasm man taps me on ... the ghost of a good orgasm taps me on the shoulder, inhabits my body, and I started shaking like a goat.

Kenrya: Do goats shake?

Erica: No, their legs lock and they fall out, and that is what happens at times. And so, I think I really liked that idea ... No, I don't think you should be just a stale lover, because if you ain't working, we ain't getting to five. But I also don't think that this needs to be a chore or something that you have to work at. We should be enjoying ourselves and an orgasm comes.

Kenrya: Because paying attention to each other's rhythms and asking questions and following up and doing what they've just asked you, whether it's just that they guided your hand to a certain place or whatever, that's not work. That's part of the dance.

Erica: Exactly.

Kenrya: Got you.

Erica: Exactly. I'm like, who grandma told her that?

Kenrya: I like this.

Erica: I definitely do, I definitely do.

Kenrya: I have a question for you. Have you ever experienced where somebody just early on where they just came and were like, time to go?

Erica: Yeah, we didn't make it past ... I mean, I think I might've stuck around for one or two thinking that I needed to work. "He had so much fun, I got to be having fun next time," but no. Yeah, I have, and it just feels you leave ... I mean, I don't like the concept of like, as a woman having sex, you're giving a piece of yourself to a man. No, I'm having sex and enjoying it.

Kenrya: Look at my fucking face.

Erica: But I do feel like having sex with someone that just worries about them and not you, definitely left me feeling empty. Like, what was that?

Kenrya: Like you were just a hole.

Erica: Yeah, like you are using me as an orifice to masturbate in. And that's the empty feeling that comes from sex. It's like you could have did this with anything--

Kenrya: You could just do this with your fucking hand.

Erica: ... a good fleshlight. Yeah, I have and was not ... And again, it's good for young girls to know this, because I was more willing to go for that shit than I am now.

Kenrya: If he starts out that way and the time when he should be pulling out all the stops, that ain't getting better.

Erica: If this ain't gravy good in the beginning, what the fuck is it going to be like when y'all both come home after working a 10 hour day tired as hell, barely want to talk?

Kenrya: And that's not to say you it has to be like mind blowing the first time, because you're still trying to learn each other's bodies, but I need to see some effort.

Erica: I need to see it feel like we at least--

Kenrya: Trying to--

Erica: Working to learn each other's rhythm. What about you?

Kenrya: I don't know, I don't think I have, but I have at once put myself in that position a little bit where I was having literally the most awkward sex I have ever had was someone, and ... It wasn't that he wasn't trying to ... he didn't care about how I felt in the situation, but he just did not know what to do, and he was an awkward person to begin with. We had these awkward conversations, but he was fine as fuck.

Erica: I was about to say, how the fuck did y'all get to there and he was just awkward?

Kenrya: He was gorgeous, his thighs ... He was gorgeous.

Erica: Something about a good man thigh.

Kenrya: Oh Lord.

Erica: That's why we love ... What's the man's name?

Kenrya: I don't know.

Erica: M'Baku. What's the man's name?

Kenrya: Now I'm just seeing thighs and hearing, "We will not have it, O."

Erica: Anyway, we love a good meaty, girthy thigh.

Kenrya: It was the thighs that got me, and the conversation was okay, but he was awkward, but he's super smart and I was like, let's just try it out, see how it would goes. And it was just as awkward as the--

Erica: Because it could go ... things could--

Kenrya: Sometimes he know how to talk with his body, because he don't know how to talk with his mouth, and that's fine. And he wasn't stupid, he was actually quite smart, he just--

Erica: Awkward.

Kenrya: Yes, and so the sex was awkward. And it literally got to the point, so the Kenrya of today would have been like, this isn't going to work, you should get up. The Kenrya of then, after a while, I would literally said "You should just finish." And so, he was like, "Really?" And I was like, "Yeah, I'm not going to cum, you should just finish." And so, he finished and then that was that.

Erica: Wow, wow. I'm so mad at that.

Kenrya: And he didn't want to leave my house because he thought it was good.

Erica: Oh now I remember this situation.

Kenrya: I really should have told him to stop and leave in hindsight.

Erica: Oh my God, I totally remember this. That is so funny.

Kenrya: Yeah, it was bad. Nice guy though.

Erica: So, in the story, the protagonist is 26, Jen is .... Jennifer is 26 and Theo is 40. You know I love old men.

Kenrya: I know. This is your steez.

Erica: What about you? Have you ever been in a— Did you say, I did crusties?

Kenrya: I did not, I said, this is your steez.

Erica: I thought you said you date crusties.

Kenrya: Oh my God, that's not nice, no.

Erica: I mean, shit.

Kenrya: I wouldn't say that ... you don't date crusty men, that wouldn't even be accurate.

Erica: It's not.

Kenrya: You like an old dick. I like, in my age, a younger dick. I have been with men who were older than me, no more than ... So, my thing is always, if you're closer to my daddy age than my age, then, gross. Get away from me, it's gross to me. Sorry y'all, it just, I'm not turned on by that. I think the most of an interval that I've ever done is maybe six years ... is that right? Pass, no, five, six ... I'm thinking back to my Bumble days when I had my--

Erica: Oh my gosh.

Kenrya: My range set, I think that the oldest I did was 45 and I think I was maybe 35, 36 when I got on bumble, something like that. And then I didn't go any younger than 34.

Erica: So, for Bumble, I set my range lower than my normal range, only because--

Kenrya: Because you were just looking for--

Erica: I like an older man, period. But I also feel a certain way about the men of the age that I like being on Bumble. Get your old ass off of Bumble. I would date a man, six years for me is like, he's my age. "Oh, he's my age."

Kenrya: I prefer my own age--

Erica: It's like 10 to 15 years older. I have no problem with a man 15 years older than me. However, if you're 15 years older than me, you're what? 55—ish?

Kenrya: Yeah, you're younger than that.

Erica: You're knocking on 55. If you're 55, I don't need you... There are probably some really nice 55 year olds on Tumblr. I haven't run into them--

Kenrya: Tumblr?

Erica: On Tumbleweeds. No, there's probably some great 55 year olds on Bumble, but, go to Our Time, maybe I need an account on Our Time.

Kenrya: What's that?

Erica: A senior Bumble.

Kenrya: Really?

Erica: Yeah. And Christian mingle. That’s how TS Madison says it. I enjoy an older man.

Kenrya: Why?

Erica: I like gray hair, I like to feel like a young tenderoni. However, when I was doing Bumble thing, it definitely, it was my first time dating guys that were ... seriously dating guys that were my age. And I actually realized, this is pretty cool.

Kenrya: I know.

Erica: I'm like, this is pretty cool. We talk about like, you catch my reference when I'm talking about whatever. Now, I find this absolutely hilarious now because the guy that I'm dating now, he is my age, but we grew up so differently that even--

Kenrya: He still don't get you.

Erica: He be like, huh? I mean, that completely ... but we were still on two different planets.

Kenrya: I think that's why I like the same age too. I like the, if you hear cash money taken over for the '99 and 2000, you too, they're like, you need to get to the dance floor.

Erica: Yeah, and for me, it's like, my guy is typically know "this is Erica shit, let me get out the way, let me move my walker out the way." I mean, I have realized that there is some fun to be had in someone that catches on, because I am queen of random obscure references in a conversation.

Kenrya: That's true. That's not a bad thing, its true.

Erica: I'm like, huh, maybe this is a good situation. Also, I like a man to take care of me. Like I want you to be generally established and take care of me, and so I think that older men tend to get that. But I will say that the older we get, the older men, they get it. So now--

Kenrya: They've gotten to the age where they get it.

Erica: ... where they get it, and it's not like some ... damn, you want cheese too?

Kenrya: Exactly. I like same age, and I hadn't been with a lot of men who were younger, but I like young dick, and not young, young, just a few years younger, because what is starting to happen in this 38 range, is that we know some men is having some issues.

Erica: Here's the thing, I like to fuck, I like having sex. I don't have to have lots of sex, when I do, it is, oh, we're going to have to clean these walls.

Kenrya: Right, but so you like that it's not ...

Erica: You're in the, let's have it three times a day stage.

Kenrya: Yeah, and a 20 minute refractory period.

Erica: Yeah, and I'm in a, "Well, we did it yesterday morning. It's like that, what do you want out of me? Was it Boosie? What do you want out of me?" That's me.

Kenrya: So, a little bit older works well for that.

Erica: Yeah, because I mean, we have good, good fun, hot sex. It's more quality than quantity. I mean, not to say you don't get quality but--

Kenrya: I like penetrative one point in a day and a non-penetrative situation at another point in a day. So, I get two and I get the full complement of the situation.

Erica: Yeah. I like a nigga be complaining about it.

Kenrya: You feel like did something. That nigga say his heart hurt.

Erica: And you know, my knee is going bad and shit, so I need to do a half a drop and make the nigga feel like I am making beats, like, "Did you see that bitch? She bent down, and picked up that panty."

Kenrya: We definitely have lots of con ... "Your knees okay? Do we need to" ... this bitch is falling apart. But it's all me, he like, "Let's get it." And I'm like, "Hold on, I need to move my knees."

Erica: Oh my God, no, that's definitely my kind of sex. Like I said, when we do it, it's trifling, but it takes a minute for us to .... it takes a minute for us to recover.

Kenrya: And that's good, it means that y'all are in the same space in terms of how much you want, which is key. I mean, it's also a good conversation. Like we had a conversation early on and we actually continue to have it to make sure we still on the same page. Like, how often is optimal for you to have sex? I think is actually a really important conversation because a lot of folks and a lot of marriages fail from people who come in and don't realize that they got completely different clocks in terms of how often they think is often enough. And if you don't have that conversation and are not honest about what it is that you need, somebody is always going to be feeling like they not getting what they need. And you know what they say, sex and money are the two major things that people get divorced over. You're setting yourself up if you don't have a honest conversation about what you want and how often you want it.

Erica: One thing just generally going into ... I was talking to a friend going into marriage, we'd go into this, I love you, you love me, we're just going to--

Kenrya: We'll make it work, love is enough, it's all we need.

Erica: Naw, Dog. You can't love yourself through red flags. All righty. Well, with that said, that wraps up this episode of The Turn On. These are your lovely hosts, Erica and Killa Kenrya, two hosts making it clap.

Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme song's from Brazy. We want to hear from y'all, send your book recommendations and all your burning sex and related questions that you want us to answer at [email protected], and please subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app. Follow us on Twitter @theturnonpod, and Instagram at @theturnonpodcast, and find links to books, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at theturnonpodcast.com. Bye.