Season 5 | Episode 2 | Trading Places

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SHOW NOTES
​This week, Erica and Kenrya read "Stiff" by Stephanie Nicole Norris and talk about tech-enabled sex clubs, dating someone's representative, giving threesomes as "gifts," pronoun autonomy, enthusiastic consent and opting out of teaching folks how to be better.

​RESOURCES
Book, "Sitff (Heavy on the D Book 1)" | Amazon
Author, Stephanie Nicole Norris | Website | Instagram | Twitter | Facebook

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TRANSCRIPT
Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
 
[theme music]

Erica: Hey y'all, welcome back to another episode of The Turn On. This week we are reading “Stiff” from Stephanie Nicole Norris, and it was published in 2020. It is a part of a series called Heavy on the D, so this is Book One. So sit back, relax, get your wine, your weed, whatever you need, and enjoy.

Kenrya: “Stiff,” by Stephanie Nicole Norris. I tap “appetizer sampler,” biting lightly the tip of my bottom lip with my teeth. A sound came from Cain, almost like a growl? I glanced up at him and the danger in his gaze didn't give me the pause I would expect it should. Instead, I was further interested in what the appetizer sampler involved. I was so turned on by the thought of everything I could sample that I almost tossed the tablet, but I still had options to choose from before the games could begin.

Kenrya: Choose your lover: the entertainer, the blind date, the gladiator. I swiped the gladiator so fast the complete list of options didn't get a chance to fill the screen. The disclaimer was the same as before, but different from the agreement Cain and I had signed before entering the elevator. It was understood then that this was a general disclaimer. "At no time, in any circumstance, shall the Den be liable for direct or indirect consequential or incidental injuries as a mishap of action regarding your desires. Modifications cannot be made without written and acceptable consent between the Den, the lover, and the patron. Proceeding warrants your agreement. Would you like to proceed? Yes, no.”

Kenrya: I tapped "yes" and the screen went black, then "Welcome" was there. Cain took the tablet from my hands and motioned toward the bar. I shook my head no, I just want you, Cain. His gaze drove over me, eye-fucking every inch in my body as he made it to the curves in my hips. Reaching out for my hand, Cain led me to the stage where the king-sized bed that was there last week sat, almost as if it were waiting for me to return. Cain strode to the wall where the harness that had me in a ballerina position remained. Instant memories of my body plastered inside, spread wide and fucked for dear life, shook me. I was already hot, needy, ready, so when Cain returned with a black blindfold in hand? I spun around slowly and closed my eyes.

Kenrya: The cloth was cool and I exhaled, relaxing my shoulders and preparing to be led by him. Blinded, I turned around, unzipping my dress until the fabric fell away from my body and he snatched me into his arms, lifting me against his hard, hot body. My legs straddled his waist and we moved what felt like two strides before I was on my back. His strong hands moved down my breasts, fiddled my nipples, gripped my waist with fingers that clenched my thighs.

Kenrya: Cain kissed down my inner thighs, moving my legs to his shoulders. His mouth sank into my skin. My entire body torched and I trembled, exhaling and squirming. If that was his warning? It was the only one he gave. Cain's mouth covered my pussy and covered my plum and sucked my clit. "Ooh," I squirmed and pleasure ripped through me. He slurped, tongued my pussy like they were my lips in a mouthwatering kiss. "Oh, my, Cain." His mouth smacked against my wet flesh as if he were devouring a meal and I was on the menu. My hips rocked against the warmth that slipped from this tongue and I arched, caught in a web of spinning desire.

Kenrya: Without my sight, every touch, taste of his tongue, and grip his hands placed on me were intensified by a thousand. My orgasm was building and I was going to cum in his mouth. My hand shot down, caressed his head, my legs shaking and a moan cruised from my lips. "Oh." Cain moved and my heart was racing, my body sizzling and stimulated. Hot lips pushed against my belly, bit into my flesh, kissed up my breasts. "Ooh," I hissed when that warmth covered a nipple and then the other, pushed together in his hands, his tongue licking back and forth. He sucked on me, driving up the beat of my pulse as he lapped at my areolas and bit into my breasts. "Ah, baby." I was shaken up under him, his massive frame dousing me in heat as he climbed, letting his mouth explore my body, lips on my chest, pushing into my neck, biting into my throat.

Kenrya: I shivered, quaked actually, on the verge of coming apart when he licked down my jaw up to my chin, where he inhaled my mouth. Tongue diving, Cain swallowed me whole and our bodies cracked when his dick entered my pussy. "Ooh." Deep diving, he stroked me hard, pressing into my pelvis as he pushed against my G-spot. I was going to cum. My hands flew to his shoulders, my nails sinking into his skin. An outcry of pleasure shot from my lips as I pulled from his mouth. Into the air, my moans surrounded us and he rocked. Licked my lips again and I let him kiss me recklessly.

Kenrya: Stretching me, bending and plunging his wild erection inside me made my blind eyes roll. With his thrusts, Cain's lips found another spot on me to indulge. Deliciously, his hips moved at angles and his dick was heavy; circumference, thick. "Fuck," I screamed in a state of euphoria. My body vibrated on the verge of an orgasm again when Cain moved, pulling out of me and leaving me to grasp for the air.

Kenrya: "Where are you?" It was basically a whimper. He flipped me over. My yelp turned into a moan when warm lips sucked at the back of my thighs. Cain bit my ass, slipped his tongue into my pussy from behind and slurped to my clitoris. The skill it took to work the tip of his wet muscle against my clit in this position? That had me in awe. My pearl was hard and standing at attention, and I screamed, "I'm going to cum!" Again, he moved to cut me off from the pleasure ready to drop from me. I was delirious for a second, then confused. "Speak to me, please. What did I do to deserve this?" Cain smacked my ass, lifted my leg, and kissed up my back as he entered me from the side.

Kenrya: My back stretched, arching, pussy thumping as he drove a long stroke inside my wet, juicy fruit. "Ooh, baby." In my ear he finally gave me an explanation. "You chose appetizer sampler, which means you get a sample of everything, but you don't get to finish." I whimpered again. This was a type of torture, and I couldn't stand another second. I needed to change the narrative. "So what if I told you to forget all that and to fuck me until I cum?"
 
[theme music]

Erica: Okay y'all, so welcome back. Kenrya, thank you for your lovely reading, your lovely rendition of “Stiff.” There's a lot of fucking in this book. This is one of them books where they fuck a lot. So, quick synopsis. There's this chick, Asia. She runs this nail salon, beauty bar, some shit like that, and she's stressed out all the time. So her employee/homegirl is like "Look, bitch. You need to go to this club and unwind." So she goes to this club... Well you first have to apply or something like that, it's real...

Kenrya: It's like a system. They got a system.

Erica: Yeah, they have a very sophisticated system.

Kenrya: It's exclusive.

Erica: The sophisticated system is because they have niggas there to dick you down, and it's glorious. It just seems like... So anyway. We'll get back to this. I'm starting to wander and wistfully think of it. Anyway. So she goes to this club, you're assigned a protector, bodyguard type guy that helps you through the rooms? And she's going through the rooms and she's like, "Fuck it, I want my bodyguard." So she meets her bodyguard, they fuck.

Erica: Little does she know he knows her from outside of the world. They went to high school together, he was a nerd, kind of had the glow up and then saw her and was like "Oh, shit." So she's fucking Cain, which is the guy in the club.

Kenrya: The name that she gave him, which was interesting.

Erica: But then Eric... Yes, Carmen.

Kenrya: No, the name that she gave him, right? Remember she was like "Can I call you Cain?" And he was like "ok".

Erica: Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Back, we'll...

Kenrya: We'll get there. Yeah, yeah.

Erica: So yeah. So she's fucking Cain, and then her friend Eric from school drops out of nowhere, comes to her shop. They strike up a relationship, they're dating, but she's still fucking Cain. And yeah, hijinks ensue.

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). That they do.

Erica: So a few things. One, let's start with the ugly and then get to the fun. So the ugly in this, I think, is that deception is never cool, right?

Kenrya: And there's a lot of deception happening here.

Erica: Yes, pretty much on his end, right? I was going to say on both ends.

Kenrya: Only thing that she's doing is using a name that's not hers, but that's for her protection, not for anyone's deception.

Erica: And it's known, it's understood...

Kenrya: That's what you do.

Erica: ... that you never use your real name going to this club, so yeah. There's deception on his end. So for the purposes of this conversation, we're going to suspend all ideas because I think Stephanie, for the purposes of the book, suspends all like notions that this is kind of creepy. It's not the right thing to do. But it sets up for a great story.

Kenrya: It does, but I think there's something interesting there. Have you ever experienced... We all been with liars, right? We've all been with people who present... Well, not all. I know I have, let me speak for myself with this long history of narcissists, right? People who create a version of themselves that is not who they are, and my therapist even calls it wearing a mask. That's where this whole 90-day thing comes, not for fucking but for just letting somebody into your life.

Erica: Yes.

Kenrya: Exactly, because usually you can only hold the mask up for so long. And although he does not have nefarious aims, it does make me think about the ways that people present their representative as opposed to who they really are and how manipulative that is. This is not just every time I see his name I got cleavage down to here and whatever, because I'm trying to present this as opposed to the fact that you are your body.

Erica: At the base of a lie is manipulation. I am lying because I want this particular...

Kenrya: Outcome.

Erica: Result.

Kenrya: And I'm okay with not giving you all the information that you need in order to be able to make an educated decision about how you want to handle it, and that's the fucked up part, right?

Erica: Yeah. So it's interesting. I'm on the apps again, fucking shoot me. And not that I don't... Here's the thing. I don't mind being on the apps, because I actually do meet interesting people, cool people. I'm really good at...

Kenrya: Separating the wicks from the chaff, yeah. The wheat.

Erica: Yeah, if the wicks turn to chaff, I separate the wicks from the chaff.

Kenrya: I was trying to say wheat, also then dropped my water bottle.

Erica: I literally heard it drop. Okay. So yeah, I think, and one of the things I'm realizing... One, is that again, I am so much more charming in person than I am on an app. If you pass by me on an app, motherfucker you're missing out because I look like a dud on a app. In person, I'm amazing.

Kenrya: Do you really think so?

Erica: I think that yeah. I'm a dud on an app.

Kenrya: Why?

Erica: It takes... It takes for like that spark in order for our chatting and stuff to be good. Sometimes it's really dry, and then you might happen to say something or I might happen to say something, and then we tumble into a really good conversation. But I feel like there are probably people, like my inbox. There's probably four niggas sitting in the inbox that it's like "How are you? How was your day? My day was good," but it never really tumbled into anything.

Kenrya: Damn it.

Erica: They don't have a lot of [crosstalk 00:14:43].

Kenrya: I'm about to say don't put that on yourself because niggas be boring.

Erica: Well yeah. But I feel like some of these guys, if I met out in a bar…

Kenrya: You'd have more chemistry.

Erica: It would probably be different. Exactly. So anyway. I met this guy on the app, and he was just a little too much too soon, and I was just like, are you... I feel like one, had I gone too far with this nigga, I would've been on “Catfish,” right? Because I don't even think he was using his real name, because my Black ass...

Kenrya: Them Googles.

Erica: Oh I hit them Googles hard, and the way that he was describing himself, I'm like "Nigga, you would've been on the Googles." And then some of this stuff was just too buzzwordy, like "Oh, I live here," in a very upscale part of town, but if you do a good Google search on the DC area you would know. "Oh, I live in Chinatown," when everybody here know it's expensive to fuck to live in Chinatown. So it was just a little too... But my Spidey senses went off, and it made me think, "Dog, you just be out here lying like a motherfucker." And maybe it'll work for somebody. Maybe it'll go way up.

Kenrya: But why you lying?

Erica: Why you got to lie, because I don't want someone that's going to fall in love with fake Erica.

Kenrya: Right. Right.

Erica: I want someone that's going to fall in love with me.

Kenrya: Yeah, because fake Erica don't last that long.

Erica: Because you know, it's hard as... Fake Erica, girl. I can't even act like I fucking care about a conversation too long, let alone feign being somebody else for a whole fucking relationship.

Kenrya: That sounds exhausting.

Erica: And if I trick you into marrying you, then I've got to maintain that shit forever.

Kenrya: Thank you.

Erica: Either that or this nigga finds out the truth, and he's resentful.

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. That's real shit. But narcissists don't think that way. The fun is in the creation and the getting people to believe the bullshit. And then I think there are people who just lie who maybe aren't narcissists, who just like to lie. I don't know. I ain't never been that person. It's hard for me to lie because I be looking stupid. It's so... I can't even tell this nigga that I'm okay when I'm not. He be like...

Erica: You're like "Okay, I lied. I lied."

Kenrya: Don't do this.

Erica: It was just very interesting, because this nigga was... Maybe he is all this and a bag of chips. I'll give you details when we get off so you can...

Kenrya: Nah, your gut is your gut.

Erica: And also, Black folks, the network is deep. You drop one thing, and I'm like oh, da-da-da-da-da. I can always...

Kenrya: You can think of two or three people you can check through to make sure, especially here.

Erica: Exactly. And so he said that he was a particular frat from a particular school.

Kenrya: Oh, nigga that's too easy.

Erica: And I know someone that is from that particular frat, not from that school but his sands in the same city. I was about to say neighborhood. In the same city. So I checked in with him, and mind you, the person I checked in with is my homie, my man, hundred grand, but this nigga grimy. And I was like "I don't know," and he was like "Trust your gut. Trust your gut." I was like, "See? This grimy motherfucker knows." So I asked him about this person, he was like "I think the entire frat had a moratorium that year."

Kenrya: Which is why he picked that year, motherfucker.

Erica: Exactly.

Kenrya: Ooh-wee.

Erica: But my homeboy, he himself was like "I know people that were on line that were pledging that year..."

Kenrya: But they didn't.

Erica: "And they didn't cross. So they still use that year, but I know them niggas from this city that were doing that, and that wasn't it." So anyway. We have one friend, a good friend, and I call her the FBI because this bitch... His name is Joe, the most vanilla name. She was like... You can be like "His name is Joe, and he's from New York City," and this bitch will have like "Which one is this?" And she'll have three of them, like "Is it this one, is this one, is it this one?" I'm just like "I love you so much."

Erica: But I'm definitely... I don't really do... I try not to Google people until I hit the point where I'm like, "Hm, this seems serious."

Kenrya: I Google once we've had a call and the call goes well.

Erica: Yeah, I try not to, because there's this balance with Google, right? You don't want to find out too much.

Kenrya: You don't want to find out too much, exactly.

Erica: And sometimes you Google and you see pictures from his Johnson Family Reunion, right? And then it's like I don't want to know that because then I want to meet Aunt Bertha and be like "Aunt Bertha, bitch you look good!"

Kenrya: Relax Dude.

Erica: But I also want to... Actually more than anything, I use Google to confirm what has been told to me to check to see if you're a liar. To me, there's not much else I could get out of Google.

Kenrya: Yeah, for most people. Unless you're a super public person, that's true. With my current partner, I didn't Google him until after our, literally finished our first conversation. And then I was like "All right."

Erica: Yep.

Kenrya: And it was, it was confirming things that we talked about. It was real quick, I found his website very quickly and he was exactly who he said it was. He looked like he looked on the app, and I was like "All right." And that was the end.

Erica: Probably used the picture from the website for the app, yeah.

Kenrya: Yes. Yes he did. And then I was like "Okay, he is who he says he is," and then that was enough.

Erica: Yeah, but I don't want to do too much, because I don't want to have too much background. But I do want to confirm that what's been said is true. And with this particular person, he was just doing too much, throwing too much out there way too soon, and I was like "Look, either this bitch," meaning me, "has hit the fucking jackpot, or there's something wrong with this motherfucker." And I could've hit the jackpot, but something was wrong with this motherfucker.

Kenrya: So just more, another reminder that we have to trust our guts. They always tell us right.

Erica: All that to say, dear Stephanie, this is not to disparage your book or anything. It was just...

Kenrya: It was the deceit, and you had to be like "Okay, this is what he's doing." Either we going to be okay because he's fine as fuck and...

Erica: And that dick. I was like, "Let me get some of that dick." Lord that man was fucking his ass off.

Kenrya: Right, and then because of who you find out that he actually, he's a good guy, right? In all other aspects of whatever. So it's easy, I guess, to suspend that for the purposes of the book, as you were saying.

Erica: Yeah. Okay so first, let's talk about this sex club. I need one of them.

Kenrya: It was like, it made it think about...

Erica: It was a woman's dream.

Kenrya: Right, which is not the case.

Erica: You can tell a woman, can't believe I'm doing this. A woman came up with this shit in her head. It was perfect.

Kenrya: And as people, both of us have been to clubs, they ain't like that.

Erica: Mm-mm (negative).

Kenrya: Not even a little bit.

Erica: He even smell good. The nigga smelled good. They smelled good. I went to a sex club, these motherfuckers had crab dip on.

Kenrya: Was that the place where everybody brought something?

Erica: Most sex clubs are BYOB. But this one, they were like "Yeah, Joanne makes a really good crab dip," and I'm like "Niggas is fucking up that crab dip," and if we were anyplace else? If we were at a baby shower? I would've been fucking up the crab dip because I love me a good crab dip. But I don't want to smell seafood and or eat creamy dairy products before I'm getting it on.

Kenrya: Yeah, that's reasonable.

Erica: Yeah, but anyway. I'm sorry, because it's like you're in a club and you stand too close, and are like, “Damn,” then you see a crock pot, niggas all...

Kenrya: The one we went to when he had it, they actually had a bar, it wasn't BYOB.

Erica: They had old white women just squirting.

Kenrya: Oh, God. It was such a weird. For those of you that haven't heard that episode? Go find it.

Erica: Go back.

Kenrya: Go back, yeah. Storytime. Woo, Lord.

Erica: Storytime, sex club. Swinger sex club?

Kenrya: Swingers Club I think we called it?

Erica: Sex Clubs. Storytime Sex Clubs. Something like that. Okay. Let's explain the sex club to everybody. First you go and you set up a profile and you don't use your... They know your name, I guess for billing purposes or something?

Kenrya: But you get to pick an alias.

Erica: They're like, "Okay, this is the last time you're going to know that name when you go through these doors." And so she picked a name, Carmen, right? So you go through the doors and then they're like "This big Black man," well I don't know if they all Black. But "This big Black man in this loincloth is yours to take you around this motherfucker." And they hand you a goddamn iPad. Do they hand you a iPad, or do you have an iPad when you get to the room?

Kenrya: When you meet your person, they give you... Yeah.

Erica: Your guide.

Kenrya: They give you a little device.

Erica: So you get this iPad and the motherfucking iPad, you go to one room and it's like the zoo room. Press it and there's a motherfucker with a 10-foot-long dick, swinging around behind bars. Okay maybe not 10 feet. Maybe, you know. But you get what I'm saying.

Erica: You go to these different rooms, and it's literally like niggas in a cage. I want that. So then you say, "I want that," and they're like "Okay, well what package do you want? Do you want the…"

Kenrya: Kama Sutra...

Erica: Do you want me to...

Kenrya: Surprise Appetizer Platter, there's all these different...

Erica: It was just... This bitch is walking her dog, he's shitting and she didn't even pick up the...

Kenrya: Is it in our yard?

Erica: Across the street from us.

Kenrya: Oh, gross.

Erica: Oh, I would've opened the window and went "Bitch!" Anyway. So you get your selection of what gets done and they just go at it.

Kenrya: Well, kind of, right? They are your entertainment.

Erica: Do the guys have a choice?

Kenrya: They do. So they are there to entertain you and you pay a flat fee whether you get...

Erica: I was so excited about sex, I missed all that.

Kenrya: You pay a flat fee, so you're not paying more to have sex, you just pay for the experience. And so they are dancing for you. You can pick from predetermined playlists, you can play...

Erica: Tonight I want to dance for you, oh, oh, oh. Work your body...

Kenrya: What's those words? Okay. Mm-hmm (affirmative). So they start with the entertainment, but they get to choose. They get to initiate touch. So if they touch you, it's on and popping. If they don't, then you don't get pushed into doing anything that they're not interested in doing. And your guide is with you, your security, is with you the whole time to meet your needs. So if you order a drink on the pad, they go and they make your drink. They're watching you to make sure you're okay. If somebody does make a move on you and you're not interested, they shut that shit down.

Erica: I need somebody to come up with this.

Kenrya: It's so dope, and it's...

Erica: And at the end of the day? Yes, it's prostitution. It's sex work.

Kenrya: Okay.

Erica: Is prostitution a derogatory term?

Kenrya: No, not necessarily. I just think that the language has evolved to sex work.

Erica: It's sex work, and I love it. Let people pay for what the fuck they want, right?

Kenrya: Yeah, and this is in a safe environment, it keeps the workers safe, everybody's got protection and everybody has autonomy in the situation. I also love the role that tech plays in the situation. Asia is very buttoned up, at least that's what she presents to people. And so the idea of her... First of all, she was freaking out about going, and the fact that she went by herself. I'm like, "Why didn't she go with her girls?"

Erica: I don't think it's a "go with your girls" kind of experience.

Kenrya: I mean... I don't know.

Erica: I would go by myself. Well, I'm a whore, so.

Kenrya: I mean, I just feel like...

Erica: Can I get two guides? I need two guides.

Kenrya: Like how her friends would call her before she went in and was like "You're sitting in your car, ain't you? Take your ass in there," or whatever. Go and yes, diverge, and then meet back up at the end. I don't know, it just felt like she needed a plan.

Erica: Go to IHOP, yeah.

Kenrya: Right.

Erica: Go to Waffle House.

Kenrya: But the fact that the tech made it easy to go through the process without having to necessarily vocalize what you needed, it made it easier to come out of herself because she could just press it on an iPad instead of having to say it.

Erica: They've probably got some shit like this in Amsterdam.

Kenrya: That would be fucking dope.

Erica: But I doubt they have rooms of big Black niggas.

Kenrya: Right, with gold foil packets. Which was nice, Stephanie made it quite clear that this sex was safe.

Erica: This is for the niggas. Strictly for the niggas. Have you see that Tik Tok? It's like a Tik Tok sound. "This is for the niggas, strictly for the niggas," so then it will be Black girl riding down the street and some white man hollers. And then she looks and it's like "This is for the niggas, strictly for the niggas." And there was this one... I've stumbled on Ain't Shit Lesbian Tik Tok. I love it.

Kenrya: I like every week you're in the new.

Erica: I know, because I have an ain't shit lesbian friend, and it was like...

Kenrya: Yes you do.

Erica: There was this chick, and she needed a refrigerator moved. And she looked at her girlfriend and her girlfriend was like, "This is for the niggas, strictly for the niggas. This is for the niggas, the real niggas." I was like...

Kenrya: You aint shit.

Erica: You ain't shit. I love it. Okay, but all that to say. This sex club was fucking amazing. I think that it was dope, and I think, like you said, the role that the tech played in it? I think that the tech, being able to deliver anonymity, anonyitomy, [crosstalk 00:30:58]?

Kenrya: I think you had it right the first time.

Erica: Anonymity. Okay. And it was just to provide covertness, stealth? I think that that would totally make it more acceptable. Because think about OnlyFans. Everybody and they mama want a OnlyFans, why? Because you can be anonymous, right? Everybody and they mama want OnlyFans.

Kenrya: Adults want to be able to do what they want to do without having to worry about what they perceive as stigma. Asia was very much like, "I got this business, I don't want nobody to see me," that kind of a thing.

Erica: Yeah.

Kenrya: Yeah, I guess.

Erica: Okay. It sounded like a fucking dream. Eric fucking glowed up after high school to become Cain. He did the complete glow up, and I think we touched on this a little bit. We talked about the shiny niggas in college versus... I ain't going to say the ashy niggas, just the niggas that wasn't out there shining, right? I say all the time to the young girls just...

Kenrya: Pay attention.

Erica: Pay attention, because if a nigga just look a little fuzzy because he got a bad haircut, he just might not.

Kenrya: He might not have the money, he might not have the time.

Erica: Yeah, it could be a million reasons. But you got to...

Kenrya: Some of them still ashy.

Erica: ... Diamond in the rough. Some of them niggas still ashy. But I mean, I think about the guys that we went to college with that I think have done a glow up. I don't even think it was really a glow up, it was just like wasn't nobody paying attention to you, because you were just kind of quiet. You wasn't a shiny nigga, you wasn't a nigga that was like tss-tss-tss, everybody look at me. So Eric did that, and turned into just a fine motherfucker.

Erica: And wasn't it like he got in touch with his dad, or him and his dad rekindled their relationship, and so then he learned how to put on some cologne and keep a fresh shape up.

Kenrya: Yeah. I mean, I think that we all... I know I definitely... I think I have glown up definitely from fucking high school.

Erica: Oh I was a mess in high school.

Kenrya: Yeah, my hair was...

Erica: I was a mess in high school.

Kenrya: Yeah, it was a lot.

Erica: And in college, I was just quiet. Was I quiet? I think I was generally quiet.

Kenrya: Sure, but not by the end.

Erica: Yeah, and that's the thing. Before, because right now I don't give a fuck. But before, I could be perceived as quiet because I was unsure of the situation, I was still trying to figure out how to play it. The codependent-slash-high anxiety-slash-OCD person in me is like "Well, I ain't trying to fuck up," or embarrass myself. That kind of thing. So I was quiet. I even think about when we first pledged our sorority. I was quiet among older sorors. They were like, "Oh, Erica's so quiet." And then linesisters like "This bitch?" because I had to figure out what was going on.

Kenrya: Yes. Same. I mean, I think that there are still people who perceive me as being quiet.

Erica: I get a call, text, DM, at least every two to three months, like "Kenrya?" And I'm like "Kenrya's my best friend. You see me and her together. Do you really think that I'm going to be like besties…"

Kenrya: With somebody who don't say nothing?

Erica: Birds of a feather. Ca-caw, ca-caw!

Kenrya: Well the reality is all of those things that you said have always been my issues. The anxiety, being hyper worried about how people would perceive me, and not being super confident when I was younger and not feeling like I wanted to contribute to conversations. And then now, a lot of it is I just don't give a fuck.

Erica: I was about to say, you don't contribute to conversations, it's like "This some bullshit." I ain't trying to... I have truly entered a "I'm not explaining shit" phase, and I kinda have to weigh it out. I mean, we've talked about this a little bit, but I try to weigh it out because somebody needs to be teaching so that niggas can learn, right?

Kenrya: It ain't got to be you.

Erica: But, yeah. It's like...

Kenrya: You know I get up, I walk out a room, I turn up some music. I just don't care, because I'm just no longer interested in engaging in conversations that I don't want to, and I'm not interested in arguing with folks with whom I'm not going to see eye-to-eye. I'm not interested in trying to convince people to be in community or give a fuck about other people or any of these things that feel deeply important to me. So I just don't.

Erica: And that's the thing. I don't want to... Yeah, I'm firmly in the "I ain't explaining myself, either you get me or you don't." I don't need you to teach me something. I will learn it when I want to learn it, how I want to learn it. And then it makes me wonder, well damn am I closed-minded? Because I talk about niggas and be like, "Them niggas ain't willing to learn nothing." It's me. I'm niggas.

Kenrya: But I don't think that's true. I think about... Even both of us, the evolution when we were doing those double dippings that we were talking about, the ways that we use language and how they've evolved over the course of this show, and how we've been able to break free of the binary. All of that, to me, is learning and growing.

Erica: It's like if somebody comes to me like "Ooh, we got Erica on tape being a bitch" or being a dick or saying something fucked up, okay. I've learned. I cannot say that I've always been [crosstalk 00:37:31].

Kenrya: Me either.

Erica: I'm thinking about somebody having a video of me like "Whitey, whitey, whitey, whitey, I hate them." But yeah. I can't say that I've been perfect, no one can.

Kenrya: No one can, and especially when you're...

Erica: All I can say is that I'm learning and I'm open to learning. And I remember I saw this tweet, and this guy, he was really... You could tell he was super upset. This person, I ain't even going to say a guy. I don't remember what the person looked like. But I know that they were... I don't know if they were trans, or something, but it was a tweet talking about pronouns. They were like, "I hate it when people use pronouns, like she, her, your momma bad bitch," shit like that, because to me, it feels like you're making fun of the fact that.

Kenrya: Making fun of it. I actually don't really like that either, but I also very much respect people's autonomy to decide how they want to be called.

Erica: Yeah, your decisions. Exactly. So reading that, I was like "Yo, that's fucked up," because I totally... I totally, I've done it before. But I also feel like it's a privilege for me to be able to do shit like that, and make light of it. And so for that reason, it's always Erica/she/her/hers. Yes, I am a bad bitch. You can call me a queen, but I'm not going to do that because it's making light of other people's inability to do that and it be a ha-ha-ha type thing.

Kenrya: Absolutely.

Erica: So bitches change and grow and learn, but I don't learn from motherfuckers that I wanna learn from. I'm not going to have some rando nigga try to school me on femininity. Like "You bitches should be wearing skirts." No. I'm not. It's not going to happen.

Kenrya: Yeah, no.

Erica: I don't even know how we got to this. I just had a hot flash. But yeah. I don't even know how we got here, but okay. Asia had two friends, she had a few friends. But she had two friends that were like...

Kenrya: Her... Yeah.

Erica: She had three friends. So she had a girlfriend named Patience who was getting a divorce and she sat down and talked to all her girlfriends and was like, look. Most women have this conversation if they're getting a divorce. You sit down with your girlfriends, some of them be like "Bitch, I knew." Some of them got the phone call the minute you're going through it like "Bitch!!!" But then other girlfriends, you've got to sit down and have the "Me and so-and-so are divorcing" call, right?

Erica: And so Patience had that sit down with Asia and Brandy. No, sorry. Brandy is the one going through the divorce.

Kenrya: And she... Damn, what is the other? It's Brandy, Patience, and then obviously Asia, and then Nicole is the other friend that's put her on to the club.

Erica: Nicole is the one that put her going to the, yeah, exactly. So Brandy's going through the divorce, and of course the question is why, which, again. People that haven't gone through divorces ask why. Niggas that have gone through divorces are like...

Kenrya: Congratulations.

Erica: You be like "Girl, there's too many to list." It's just I feel like you never divorce for one reason. Maybe some people do.

Kenrya: Most of the time it's an accumulation of things.

Erica: But it's never one reason. Exactly, because it's a big decision. So then Brandy's like, "Yo, I had a miscarriage," to which her girlfriends are like, "So sad." And then she says, this isn't an integral part of the story, so I'm just going to tell it. And then she's like, "Well, after the miscarriage, my husband was sad so I gave him a threesome." So I hate when people "give" threesomes as a gift, because to me it's one of them things where it's like... It needs to be something that we... Enthusiastic consent, right? I don't want it to be like, "Mm. Here."

Kenrya: Here you are.

Erica: Here you go.

Kenrya: Right. What's the point of that?

Erica: And because I want it to be one of those, I can't wait for my husband, my partner, to watch me get my back blown out, and my partner can't wait to see it happen, too. It just don't. It just don't feel right to me.

Kenrya: How... Yeah. I'm with you. I'm also wondering, how often do you think that people do that as an excuse to indulge in something that they want to do, but that they don't want to admit that they want to do, and so it's easier to put it on their partner?

Erica: Yeah.

Kenrya: I mean, I'm sure that's much less common.

Erica: No, I do believe that happens. Remember the guy that let me peg him?

Kenrya: Because female identified people, right.

Erica: He was like, "You just like it, so I'll let you do it." Don't no grown ass man do that, because "Oh, he want me to let him do it."

Kenrya: Just ’cause.

Erica: And he wasn't a beginner. But anyway. Yeah, so. I totally think that that is possible. I just... Yeah, enthusiastic consent. I was trying to make this whole long situation for us to talk about.

Kenrya: But no, and own your pleasure, right? Stand in what it is that you want.

Erica: Exactly. Exactly.

Kenrya: I don't want to feel like I'm coerced into something, or coercing someone else into something. That's not sexy.

Erica: And I think that there are different between hard and soft limits, right? Hard limits are "Ain't no fucking way, get that shit away from me, fuck no." Soft limits are, "Mm, I don't think I want to do it, but I'd be open to learning more." Trying, let's experiment. But if a bitch is like fuck no, then fuck no, right?

Kenrya: Shut it down. Yeah.

Erica: So I think for some people, threesomes are soft limits, and yeah that's more of an exploratory, "yeah, let's try it out," or "we're going to do it around his birthday" or on his birthday, on their birthday. I'm sorry. I still have this very binary speech and I'm trying to work on it. Sorry y'all.

Kenrya: [inaudible 00:44:42].

Erica: A "we'll try it out" type thing, but I'm going to give it to them because they want it? What about you? Where do you sit in that? Because if something go wrong, "I shouldn't have did it."

Erica: Okay. Do you have any more thoughts about threesomes?

Kenrya: No. I've never done one, it used to be on my list of things I wanted to do. This is going to sound terrible maybe, but it's true. I really feel like it's something I should've done when I was with somebody who I didn't really give a fuck about.

Erica: Because now you're like, "Bitch, get off of him."

Kenrya: Yeah. And that's my own insecurity, that's my own unwillingness to fucking share.

Erica: No, everybody's got their thing, and it's totally fine, right?

Kenrya: It's just not my jam. Yeah.

Erica: Yeah.

Kenrya: It was an experience that I wish I'd had when I was younger and just kind of out here, and honestly I would've done... Well, I would've done either way, but I think that was the stuff of fantasies when I was younger was more so two men. Yeah. Which is hard to find...

Erica: A partner that's willing.

Kenrya: Willing men to do. Yeah.

Erica: Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative). Okay. I actually had therapy this morning, and we were talking about that because I haven't... I've graduated.

Kenrya: I know, that's why I said earlier. I said "My therapist," because you're no longer going.

Erica: This is my graduation cap. I had therapy, and so we were doing just a general checkup, how's everything going because I had big issues. I felt so bad, because we got on and I was dumping, like bleh bleh. And then she was like "Okay. So how are you doing?" Then we were talking about dating and I told her I'm in a place where I want a partner, but it doesn't necessarily have to be traditional? And she was like, "So does that mean you're ready for an open relationship?" I was like, "I don't think I want an open relationship, but I'm comfortable with a level of swinging-slash-fucking other people on the outside." If we agree upon it and it's a mutual thing, because don't be mad when I'm putting ice down there. He like, "What happened?"

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: But yeah. That made me think. Maybe things would change, or I'd feel different if I was really feeling somebody, but right now I'm just fucking.

Kenrya: Yeah, hey.

Erica: I like it like that. Okay so Asia has her crew, Cain has his crew, but then they get together and there's crew love, and to me that is every girl's dream. It's every girl's dream to me, because I love my friends so much, it'd be perfect if my boyfriend loves his friends, and then they got together with my friends and we're all just friends in one family. And we actually have friends that are like that.

Kenrya: We do, yeah.

Erica: Which I think is great, because then they get to see their kids grow up with... I think that's just beautiful. I just think that's beautiful, so I was like...

Kenrya: It is very cute.

Erica: ... A girl's dream. A person's dream, right? You're like "I don't give a fuck."

Kenrya: Yes. No, it's not that I don't give a fuck, I think it's cute. I also know that it's not a dealbreaker to me, right? My partner is always down to be around, but he not a like sit around with niggas all day.

Erica: I'm sorry, I was about to say some shit that's going to get him in trouble, me in trouble, all of us in trouble. But anyway, continue.

Kenrya: And he's also not a... He don't want to be paired up with my friends' partners.

Erica: Yeah, he don't need the boyfriends' dates, like "No, I'm good."

Kenrya: Yeah. He's like, “No, I'm okay.” But he is like "Okay, we can all go hang out together," and it works well. I get it, and I don't push it because that's just not what he's interested in, and that's okay because he still comes around when I want him to come around.

Erica: Okay. That's all I've got. You got anything else to add?

Kenrya: No. I enjoyed this. She went to Howard, didn't she? Asia?

Erica: Yes. I literally had it highlighted.

Kenrya: Did I make that up? Okay.

Erica: It's Howard University. I highlighted it and wrote, "You know."

Kenrya: So that was cute. No, I thought it was a really good book. Sex scenes are great, there are a lot of them. Get into it.

Erica: Yep. Okay, well we'll take a break and we'll be back with...

Kenrya: That's right. What's Turning Us On, is that what it's called?

Kenrya: Hey y'all. Today's a great day to start your own podcast. Whether you're looking for a new marketing channel, have a message you want to share with the world, or just think it'd be fun to have your own show like us, podcasting is an easy, inexpensive and fun way to expand your reach online. And Buzzsprout is hands down the easiest and best way to launch, promote, and track your podcast. Your show gets put online and listed in all the major podcast directories like Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google, literally everything within minutes of finishing and uploading your recording. We use it here for The Turn On, and I can truly attest to the fact that it's pretty fucking dope.

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Erica: Okay y'all, so we're back with...

Kenrya: Oh. What’s turning us on.

Erica: You's asleep. You's asleep. Asleep at the wheel.

Kenrya: I might've been. Listen, I'm so fucking tired. What's turning us on?

Erica: Okay so... Girl, I've got to figure out what I'm doing with my hair. Okay so this week, what is turning me on? I think we mentioned this in our 12 Days of Christmas situation, where we were highlighting things that you can use for Christmas, buy for Christmas, sell for Christmas. Christmas shit, yes. So I found this website, oh. Y'all see it. So I found this website, it's called Enby, E-N-B-Y. ShopEnby.com is the website, I think. We'll include all the links. And Enby sells, among other things, they sell sex toys and most of their sex toys, not all. Well they have a number of sex toys that are for genderqueer, nonbinary, transitioning folks? So a lot of their stuff isn't necessarily a dildo, because some people have body dysmorphia and don't want a dildo near them. They do sell dildoes, good ones so far. But they really...

Kenrya: And really good straps and all kinds of stuff, yeah.

Erica: Yeah, just think outside of the box or people that are... because we don't think about it. We think about people going through transitions... I'm probably using the wrong words. But you know, gender confirmation transitions, and I didn't think about it until I went to Enby, but you think about it like one day you're one way, the next day you're not. No. There's a whole life you got to live in between that, and you probably get horny and want something to happen. So they have products for people that are in the process of, their nibbly bits are being changed and so it ain't a dildo, but it ain't a pocket pussy, that kind of stuff.

Erica: So this thing that I found, I love it. It is called..

Kenrya: Mm-mm (negative).

Erica: It looks like a little... I don't know. It looks like an ice cream cone.

Kenrya: It looks like an ice cream cone, yeah.

Erica: So look.

Kenrya: You ran the battery down when you were showing it to me last night.

Erica: All right. It's a little... It rotates, so it's a little rotator.

Kenrya: [inaudible 00:54:33].

Erica: But the great thing about this is that these little ice cream swirls are super soft and super flexible. So I find it great to stimulate my clit with some lube on.

Kenrya: But you could use that in a lot of different places.

Erica: Yeah, but you can also use it on nipples, I've been really big into pleasure mapping lately, so you can just play with it on different parts of your body and see what feels good. Gooch, maybe? I'm so excited about learning about a gooch. Months later, I'm still into gooches. I cannot wait to have sex with this, so that my partner can be fucking me and... Wait. Using that on my clit as I get inside stimulation. So this is adorable, it's cute. I say buy it, it'll make you happy. It made me happy.

Kenrya: Yay.

Erica: Yeah, that's what's turning me on.

Kenrya: I think I might end up getting one of those, too.

Erica: Yeah, I'll send you the link. I'll send everyone the link.

Kenrya: Everyone, yeah.

Erica: It'll be in our show notes. Okay, so yeah. Hallellujah hollaback.

Kenrya: That's what's turning us on.

Erica: Hollaback hallelujah. My sister would say that.

Kenrya: Oh Lord have mercy.

Erica: Hallelujah, hollaback. Erica and Kenrya, two hoes making it clap.

Kenrya: Bye.

[theme music]
 
Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Hit subscribe right now in your favorite podcast app and at YouTube.com/TheTurnOnPodcast, so you'll never miss an episode.
 
Erica: Then follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. And you can find links to books, transcripts, guest info, what's turning us on, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com.
 
Kenrya: And don't forget to email us at [email protected] with your book recommendations and your pressing sex-and related questions.
 
Erica: And you can support the show by leaving us a five-star review, buying some merch or becoming a patron of the show. Just head to TheTurnOnPodcast.com to make that happen.
 
Kenrya: Thanks for listening and we'll see you soon. Holla.