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Amazon Music | Apple Podcasts | Google Play | iHeart Radio | Pandora | Radio Public | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | YouTube CONNECT WITH THE TURN ON Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | Goodreads | Patreon SHOW NOTES In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya read "The Romantic Agenda" by Claire Kann and talk asexuality, aromanticism, heteronormative conditioning, love bombing, and balancing platonic and romantic relationships. RESOURCES
ADVERTISEMENT Buzzsprout The Turn On participates in affiliate programs, which provide a small commission when you purchase products via links on this site. This costs you nothing, but helps support the show. Click here for more information. TRANSCRIPT Kenrya: Come here. Get off. [theme music] Erica: Hey. Kenrya is smiling. Hey y'all. Welcome to- Kenrya: I am. I muted myself. Erica: Huh? Kenrya: Yeah, I had muted myself. I was like, "Oh, you want me to say hey [crosstalk 00:00:30]," right? Erica: So hey, welcome to the penultimate episode of season five of The Turn On. Your lovely co-hosts, Erica and Kenrya are here, and cohost Kenrya, is about to read an excerpt from “The Main Agenda.” Kenrya: “The Romantic Agenda.” Erica: Fuck. “The Romantic Agenda.” Kenrya: I like how you were sliding into that though. That was nice. Erica: I thought you were going to join me in chorus. Kenrya: Oh. Erica: Okay, “The Romantic Agenda” written by Claire Kann in 2021. Sit back, relax, get your wine, weed, whatever you need, and enjoy. Kenrya: “The Romantic Agenda,” by Claire Kann. Kenrya: Being asexual wasn't a choice for Joy. Deciding to have sex would be. There are too many things to consider, so many potential outcomes like pregnancy and STIs that could change your life forever. She doesn't see it as fun like Malcolm, and she doesn't feel the desire to have sex with another person. The cons simply outweigh the pros. If she ever decides to have sex, she wants it to be an informed and active choice, and she wants to feel safe. Kenrya: Joy continues, "I need someone who will be okay with me laughing, asking too many questions, being weird and cracking jokes, someone that can calmly explain things to me in the moment without getting frustrated or overwhelmed. One of my worst nightmares is having sex with someone, and then they get mad at me because they think I'm not taking it seriously, or because I don't automatically turn into a puddle of moaning mush, when if they knew me at all, they would know that I am taking it seriously. It's a big deal to me. I just express it differently because I want to understand what's happening while it's happening." Kenrya: "I can do that," Fox says too quickly. "You can trust me." Joy manages not to laugh. "Let's think with our big brains, not our little brains." She places her hands on his neck, stroking his jaw with her thumbs. "You're a great person, Fox. I really do like you, but I also met you three days ago. I don't know you well enough to trust you like that. I'm not having sex with you tonight." "Hm, that's exactly what I wanted to hear," she whispers, mouth near his. "I can see you thinking." "I am." He gives her a quick peck and rests his forehead against her chest. "Big brain needs a minute to catch up." Kenrya: Joy holds him there, rubbing his back. "Cool. I'll wait here." He laughs and mutters, "God." His expression is solemn when he says, "I really like you too, Joy." "Okay," she inhales, holding it to prepare herself to be disappointed. It always ends like this. "I'm very attracted to you." He lifts his head. "I know." Her gaze flicks downward and up again. "I can tell." That made him smile. "I hear you. I understand what you're saying." "But?" "No buts," he says, "I understand." "No buts? No questions? Nothing?" "Nah, I said I understand. Is there something else you need to tell me?" "No, that's it." Fox kisses her again, softly at first, and then harder and with more urgency. Kenrya: She's not overwhelmed, but she gets close when he squeezes her thighs. Her hands are on his wrists in record time, holding him firmly. He breaks their kiss and looks her in the eyes, still soft, still understanding. He asked, "Can I touch you?" Touching makes it intentional. Kissing, combined with touching, creates a shift from kissing to arousal, to sex. Joy only wanted the first part, maybe not forever, but certainly for right now. "Depends where." He thinks about it, and answers, voice low and earnest, "Is everywhere too much?" Joy laughs, wrapping her arms around his neck, and repeatedly kissing his cheeks. "It might be, so let's start slow." Kenrya: "What are you doing?" She pauses, holding the hem of her sweatshirt. "I'm taking off my clothes. I'm okay with some touching. Unless you want me to keep them on." "Hm," Fox squeezes his eyes shut for a second, shaking his head, "Can I just..." he touches her at the waist, "Maybe I should do that." "Oh," she says, understanding him. "Panties stay on unless I say otherwise." "I understand. Lift your arms." His voice is firm, a rumbling command. She does, and he slides her sweatshirt off with one hand, and unclasps her bra with the other. "That's... skillful." Fox kisses up her neck and ends with nibbling her earlobe as his fingers trace the outline of her shoulder blades. Kenrya: Joy places her hands on his shoulders, trying to concentrate on how each sensation feels, so she can remember what she likes, but it blurs together. Everything is sending signals to her brain at once. He stops, moving to kiss her chin. "You don't like being on your back." Joy bites her lip in surprise. When did he figure that out? He said it like he already knew the answer, so she just nods to confirm. "If I'm next to you, would that work? Not on top or over, just right next to you, like we're side by side." "I never tried that." "Do you want to? You can say a flower if you want to stop." Joy kisses his forehead. "Let's try it." Kenrya: She lies back in the bed, head propped up by pillows. True to his word, he stays next to her, completely to one side as he kisses her. He creates a path, touching, and kissing, and tasting down her body. Her neck, her shoulders, each of her arms, and all her fingers. Her chest, down, down, down, down, down. When she laughs because it tickles, he does too. When he takes off her shorts, lifting her legs in the air and kissing down the length of them, she holds his gaze. On the way back up, he paid special attention to all the spots he missed on the way down, like the backs of her knees, her elbows, and her waist. Kenrya: Joy shivers, and gasps, back arching. There's a slight tremble low in her abdomen, the same kind she gets when she masturbates. "You okay?" "Kiss me again, right there." He does, and the same thing happens. She laughs this time, absolutely delighted by the sensation. "Ah," he says, "I think you have a spot." "What's that?" She giggles, and feels stupid for doing it, but can't stop. "Think of it like a cheat code," he says, laughing too. Fox lifts himself up, and she holds her arms open for him, bringing him close. He kisses her mouth and says, "You're too beautiful. I almost can't believe you're real." "Fox, no. Don't say that." She buries her face in his neck, practically her new favorite spot. "It's so cheesy, and I love it." [theme music] Erica: Hey, we're back. Kenrya: Hey. Erica: Okay y'all, so thank you for that lovely rendition, Kenrya, that lovely rendition of a scene from this book. Okay, you have to give the synopsis. Kenrya: Okay. This book stars Joy, who- Erica: Joy... and pain. Sunshine and rain. Sorry. Kenrya: Yes, Joy. Huh, that made me think of some stuff. So, Joy is in love with her best friend, Malcolm, which we find out right in the beginning, and they work together, which makes it interesting. As the book opens, Malcolm tells Joy that he needs her to go with him on a trip that weekend, and because she's got these feelings for him, she thinks that the trip is where he's finally going to tell her that he loves her, and they whatever. Kenrya: None of this is a spoiler, because you find out right away. Oh, that's pretty. You find out right away that he actually has planned this weekend to introduce her to his about-to-be girlfriend, Summer. She absolutely feels ambushed. She's like, "You ain't never mentioned this bitch before, and now all of a sudden we're supposed to be going away on a weekend?" So she decides to go, and then she finds out that Summer has brought her best friend, Fox. Erica: Wait, wait, wait, they knew from the beginning that Summer was bringing her friend, because that's why he invited her. Kenrya: Oh yes, but she didn't know who it was, or anything like that. Erica: Yeah, he was just like, "She's bringing her friend. I'm bringing you." Kenrya: "Can you run interference?" Kind of a deal. Erica: Yeah, exactly. Kenrya: Yeah, so not only is she not going away on this romantic whatever with her best friend who she loves, but she's also expected to entertain this nigga she ain't never met before in order to help them be able to have time? The fuck? That's how Joy feels about this whole scenario. But she says yes, and the four of them go away and hijinks ensue. Erica: Dot, dot, dot. Okay, so I was struggling with how to talk about this, how to structure this, because there are a few themes that I want to discuss, but then I also want to discuss sexuality. What you want to do, themes or sexuality? Kenrya: Let's start with the sex. Erica: Here's the thing. It's clear in this book, they say it multiple times, she talks about it a lot, Joy is asexual, as is Malcolm. But it presents itself in different ways, because like everything, like sexuality, asexuality is on a spectrum. Kenrya: Yeah, folks are not monoliths. Erica: Yes, so to prepare for this, I wanted to look for some good definitions and ways to wrap our head around asexuality. I'll be very honest... First, asexuality is just you have no sexual attraction, like you don't want to have sex. Well no, I'm sorry, see, already fucked it up. It's a lack of sexual attraction. That's it. That is it. I think it is difficult for us to think about that because we have been programmed, conditionalized, institutionalized to believe one, sexual attraction and romantic attraction go together, and also to believe that both sexual attraction and romantic attraction is what we want, the highest thing- Kenrya: The end-all-be-all. Erica: Exactly. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Even from kids, we were programmed that not only liking someone... Liking someone also is coupled with wanting to have sex with them. Okay, maybe not, but like- Kenrya: Which is gross. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Erica: That's what it is, you like somebody, you do it. That is why I think it is so difficult for everyone- Kenrya: Allosexuals to wrap their heads around asexuality. Erica: Exactly, because it's like, hand in hand and that kind of thing. Also, I learned that there are asexual people and there are aromantic people. You know who actually does a really good job of explaining this shit, and I was mad that I fell down a rabbit hole? Kenrya: Hm? Erica: Tinder. Kenrya: Really? Erica: They have a whole YouTube channel and they talk about demisexual, asexual, sapiosexual. They talk about all of that, and then they have actual people that are, that identify as that, to talk about their experiences. This is where a lot of the information I got came from, because it was multiple people talking about their experiences and there were people of color in there talking about their experiences. Kenrya: Nice. Erica: So, I like to ask the people without making them... If you're in a space where you're like, "I'm going to teach," great. But I ain't trying to just- Kenrya: Put your ass under a microscope, yeah. Erica: Exactly. So, there is asexual and aromantic. Some people are asexual and aromantic. That is like, "I ain't trying to be romantic. I ain't trying to be sexual." In the clip there was this woman, and she was asexual and aromantic. She was like, "I am not going to marry. I am not going to date. I have no desire for that. It kind of looks weird to me.” Erica: But there are also people that are asexual, and I forgot the term, but they do have romantic attraction. That presents itself in, "I have a boyfriend. I want a boyfriend. I want a girlfriend. I want a partner. And we may get married. It's just I don't really have a desire to have sex with you." But also, having a desire to have sex is still very different from actually enjoying fucking, which is what Malcolm is. Erica: Malcolm is asexual, but he also enjoys the act of having sex, because- Kenrya: It's the closeness, the- Erica: It's a dick. Yes, but to me, it's- Kenrya: Nerve endings? Erica: Exactly. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: It just is. I think we have to... In my mind, I slide it in... I know you're playing Wordle, right? Kenrya: Oh, of course I'm playing Wordle. Erica: I don't even fucking understand it, so this is probably a really bad explanation, but you know how on Wordle they have the two squares, there's a square and a square, and a square and a square, and a square and a square, is that Wordle, right? Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah. Erica: If you think of two squares as a person, top square is sexual, bottom square is romantic, you might be asexual and aromantic. You might be sexual and aromantic. It's possible for one light to be on- Kenrya: To be one and not the other. Erica: ... and not the other. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: People can live that way and have joy-filled lives. It's difficult for some asexual people to even recognize that they are asexual, and then identify as such because they're like, they can see people and see that people are attractive, they're like, "Oh my God, that person is fucking gorgeous." I saw a TikTok. It was this chick, she was like, "I'm asexual. Wow, that chick is hot." And then she turns around and she's like, "Wow, that chick is hot. Am I sexual?" Then she looks at a bookshelf, "Wow, that bookshelf is hot." Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: No, I'm not. So, that kind of thing. Also, if you're interested in this, #asexual. Do not do #ace on TikTok because motherfuckers just abuse everything. Kenrya: Oh, wow. Erica: [inaudible 00:18:14]. You'll find yourself- Kenrya: It's just people use it for a lot of other shit. Erica: [crosstalk 00:18:18], but #asexual on TikTok, man you're going to find... I love TikTok because people, they not only teach, but they teach with levity. Then other folks be like, "Man, I identify," and that kind of thing. Kenrya: That's what's up. Erica: Yeah, TikTok will teach you a lot. I'll be honest- Kenrya: Can I give another resource? Erica: TikTok, no. TikTok- Kenrya: No, I'm saying, can I give another resource? Erica: Oh, no. No, yeah. Kenrya: Why? Erica: I'm just playing with you. Give another resource. Kenrya: I just started, and I'm not very far into, but already really dig it, “ACE: What Asexuality Reveals About Desire, Society, and the Meaning of Sex” by Angela Chen, which has given me some definitions and somewhat- Erica: No, I'm like ain't nobody going to read that. Well, your people will. Niggas that listen for Erica go to TikTok or YouTube. Kenrya: It's a book show, bitch. Erica: I know. Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:19:20]. Erica: And I have tons of books. Kenrya: But you can do both, right? Erica: You can do both. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Just get the book, and use it as reference. Kenrya: We'll link to it. Erica: Or listen to it. As a sex educator, I know this is... I was going to say it’s kind of fucked up, but no, this is who the fuck I am. When it comes to sexuality, I recognize that that shit is a fucking spectrum. Not only is a spectrum that goes this way, horizontally, it's a spectrum that's up and down, inside, outside. It is a fucking sphere. Kenrya: Sphere, yeah. Erica: Sphere. There are so many parts of it that makes one person who they are. Again, it's been difficult for me to even wrap my head around these things, because I have been conditioned that one and the other goes in hand, and you can't uncouple them. But I feel like this book has done a really good job of showing that one, asexual people are just fucking people with issues and da-da-da-da, but also- Kenrya: Just like the rest of us, yeah. Erica: It presents itself in so many different ways that even if someone says they're asexual, that could mean a million different things. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah. That's what's up. Erica: You got anything? Kenrya: Just that, so Claire... This is Claire's fourth book, and I have read them all. I am a huge fan. The first one that I read from her is called “Let's Talk About Love,” and it stars an asexual character. Claire does a really good job in that book of explaining what you were just explaining with the TikTok where the woman was like, "That woman's hot. Oh, that bookcase is hot." Her character in that book has a color-coded system, and they check in with their friends like, "Is that hot? Is this what y'all think is sexy?" Kenrya: She calls it her "squee score," like does it make her squee, does it give her joy and delight to look at something, or whatever. As another resource for understanding, I thought “Let's Talk About Love” was a really great place to start in the fictional realm to kind of get into the head of a character who identifies- Erica: And it's a YA novel, right? Kenrya: It's a YA, yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: Which is also really great- Kenrya: It's excellent. Erica: ... because it helps young people understand, and understand the differences in people. I'm not even sure if I finished that thought, going back to younger people identifying as asexual, because we are conditioned that love, attraction, sex looks a certain way, a lot of young people find themselves confused about whether or not they're asexual because they're like, "Well, I like this. I don't like that." Again, it's a sphere. Kenrya: Yeah, even in the book, Joy realizes that she identifies that way because there's a fair and Malcolm is there at a booth by himself, with a handout that's like "Are you asexual?" She's like, "Oh, shit." Erica: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Kenrya: "Maybe I am." Erica: Actually, there was this chick I found on YouTube, a white chick, and she is asexual and aromantic, and married, and happy. So, I didn't go down... She's got a whole ass channel about her and her partner, da-da-da-da-da. Kenrya: That's the thing. We always talk about how you build the life that you want. You don't have to have a romantic partner to have a partner. You could just have someone who you care about be your person that you live with and grow with. That's what it sounds like is her situation. Erica: Not to sound too hotep-y, but I do think that society favors people that are monogamous and married. Kenrya: Yeah, I don't think that's hotep-y. I think it's [crosstalk 00:24:01]- Erica: The man wants us to procreate. Kenrya: You didn't say that that's how it should be. You just said that that's how it is, and I think unfortunately it's true. Erica: So, people try to fit themselves in boxes that aren't necessarily for them in order to gain those privileges. This also applies to just nonmonogamy. Just everything, I think we are conditioned from the very beginning that we are supposed to be sex, love, romance are all packed into one. When you pull those apart, you're the devil. It's a million things, and that's not it. It is very possible to want to fuck somebody and not fucking like them, not want to spend the rest of your life with them, and not even fucking be attracted to them. Erica: It's also possible to be attracted to someone and not want to fuck them. There are so many things, so many parts and bits of it that do not fit into that first comes love, marriage, baby carriage type shit. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Yeah, that's what I've got on that. You got anything else to add? Kenrya: Uh-uh (negative), no that's good. Erica: Okay, so we've got the sex out the way. Now, at the very beginning of the book, Joy notes that her friend Malcolm is a hopeless romantic and a serial monogamist, which made me think about love bombing. I'm not saying that he's a love bomber, but she did say- Kenrya: Yeah, because I don't think he is. Erica: ... but she did say he has been known to make these sweeping gestures. Kenrya: Like Toby on fucking “This Is Us,” which is why I don't like Toby, and I'm glad... Have you been watching “This Is Us”? Erica: Girl, I stopped a long time ago. Kenrya: Oh, you got to come back. Anyway, go ahead. That's why I don't like Toby. Erica: Yeah, and- Kenrya: It's all love bombing. Erica: Okay, so love bombing is essentially... You describe it, because it's my definition that always fucks... We literally have 20 minutes of me- Kenrya: That's not true. Erica: ... doing one definition. Kenrya: I don't know. Do I have a compact definition of love bombing? I guess when I think of it, I think of it as where people basically use the trappings of expressing their love as manipulation. We talk about how love is an action and a verb, and blah-blah-blah, well these are people who kind of weaponize that. They use it to make you think that they are the only person in the world who can love you in this way, and oftentimes it goes hand in hand with isolating you from the other people who you love. But not always. Kenrya: Yeah, it's a form of manipulation, and a form of "I love you so much, girl, can't you see?" Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: I'm sure there's a much better definition. Erica: No, I think that's good. It's just, you know, niggas showing up at your job with a fucking- Kenrya: Yeah, that grand gesture shit that's not earned, and out-sized for the relationship. Erica: If you need a compact definition, that is it, grand gestures that are not earned and are out-sized of where we are. Like, "Nigga, you are expressing love on a 10, and we are only at two." You know what it made me think of? Kenrya: What? Erica: Nard dog. Andy Bernard from “The Office.” Kenrya: Lord, have mercy. That whole character is a fucking mess. Erica: He's a fucking mess, but is love bombing, right? Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: Now, with the exception of Erin, because I do think that with Erin, his love bombing was definitely a weapon, but with Angela, that motherfucker just didn't know. You know, who did he do the 12 Days of Christmas with? Was it Erin or Angela? Where she came out and there was 12 drummers drumming, six lords leaping. Whatever, I don't know. Kenrya: I want to say that was Angela, but I don't know, and I'm sure- Erica: No, you know what, Angela liked “Little Drummer Boy,” and so they said they were going to walk down the aisle to that. Kenrya: To “Little Drummer Boy.” But see, in his case with her, I always felt like it was over-compensation because he knew that she wasn't fully present for him. Erica: Yes. Yeah. Kenrya: Which is still love bombing. Erica: Yeah, and I saw the episode the other day where he proposed to her. In “The Office” carnival, there're fireworks in the loopty-loo, the Ferris wheel. Then he's like, "Angela, can I have your tiny little hand in marriage?" "Okay." Kenrya: She was never there for him. Erica: But yeah, that's what love bombing looks like, like this motherfucker is going all out and you're like... And, what I feel like what happens a lot, for at least Black women, and I'm about to make a sweeping statement, Kenrya, cuss me out, but I feel like for Black women a lot of times we're not used to being loved out loud. Kenrya: When it happens [crosstalk 00:30:02]- Erica: When it happens, it's just like [crosstalk 00:30:04]- Kenrya: It feels really good. Erica: ... you get caught up in it, caught up in the rapture of love bombing. Kenrya: I would agree with you. I don't know that this is exclusive to Black women, but you're for damn sure right that we are often not loved out loud, yeah. So, when we do, and we've been taught that we don't really deserve that, that we don't warrant that, we don't get those big things in media, which is why romance is so great because we get those happily ever afters where we don't get them in other places in media, when Black folks write us. It feels good. Kenrya: We had a book this season where that was an issue, where dude kept making these big ole' things and showing up, and we were like- Erica: This is a problem. Kenrya: This feels like a precursor to abuse. Erica: Yeah, yeah. Yep, and I think about... Was that this season? Kenrya: What, that book? Erica: It was this season. Okay, yeah, yeah. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: I think also social media has a lot... Because we see on social media a fucking rapper buying his girlfriend a room full of roses and a Bentley, we think that a nigga buying a room full of roses and a Bentley is extravagant, but it's love. Kenrya: Even though there was a news story two weeks ago that this nigga had another baby on her. Erica: Oh, shit. I don't know who we're talking about. Kenrya: Oh, I'm just saying in general. I'm thinking of one particular couple, where he's always buying her some shit, but it's always usually we just heard that he did some other shit, that he cheated with somebody else. Cardi. Erica: Oh, okay. Kenrya: It's always preceded by some fuck shit that he just did, and now he's making some big gesture, buying her this truck, or this car, or whatever the fuck. We got to look at this shit wholistically, fam. Erica: Yeah, and also these motherfuckers are like a car is a fucking day of [crosstalk 00:32:13]. I'm just saying, love bombing is a thing, and although it feels good, it's not always good. It's not good. Kenrya: And it usually only feels good in the short term. Erica: Yeah, because if you were- Kenrya: He's usually covering something up. Erica: If somebody's doing some shit, and you're like, "Oh my gosh, this is fucking amazing, but I don't even know this nigga's middle name..." oh my goodness, oh wait a minute. I'm watching “90 Day Fiancé.” I just started it. There's this guy on there. He was on last season. His name is Usman, also known as " Sojaboy," and he is a Nigerian superstar rapper-singer. Erica: Last season, he had this white woman. Of course, she had leather skin, hair, and a voice like this. Got married. Didn't go well. They divorced. So guess what, Usman is back with another white woman. Kenrya: Is Michael still with old girl? Erica: Who? Kenrya: Michael, ain't that the other Nigerian? Erica: Michael and Angela? Yes. They're still there. Poor Michael, they just ain't letting his ass in the States. They just can't let him in the States. Anyway- Kenrya: Really? Erica: Uh-uh (negative), I don't think he got in the States. Kenrya: Oh, shit. Erica: I don't think [crosstalk 00:33:40]. This made me think. Usman, I feel so bad that we're on this tangent, but Usman told this chick... She was like, "I met him. We talk online. He's my boo. He told me I'm his potential girlfriend." So, she flies to fucking Zanzibar to meet him, as he's preparing for this video shoot. He's like, "We need separate rooms," and so she gets the fucking presidential suite, because she's like, "We're going to be together, and we need-" so she got the fucking presidential suite in this fucking resort in Zanzibar. Erica: Then, the first night they're together, he comes to her room because of course, they're not staying together because he's like, "Last white bitch was crazy. This white bitch maybe going to be crazy, and you need to earn your way into girlfriend-hood." This bitch bought this nigga a fucking MacBook Pro and a PS5. Kenrya: Oh, boy. Erica: He's hype. He starts kissing on it. Then he was like, "Okay, I'm going to go back to my room," and he takes his shit and goes back to his room. It was horrible. Love bombing. Kenrya: Then this is her trying to buy his affection, right? Like- Erica: He was like, "Aha. Aha. It's going to take more, but I appreciate that." If someone had just bought a new MacBook Pro, them hoes ain't cheap. I was just like, "Oh." Even if he got the basic model, that's about $2,500.00. Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:35:33]. Erica: So yeah, anyway. Whew, have fun. By the time this airs, we'll see if Usman and the girl, who also is a huge Michael Jackson fan, has a Michael Jackson tattoo on her... It was just so cringey. I'm watching it like, "Ew." Okay. Also, we learn that Malcolm had hopeless romantic serial monogamist. He had a girlfriend before, and they broke up because the girlfriend was like, "You got this homegirl, Joy. You're in love." Did she say that he was in love with her? Kenrya: She felt like he always chose Joy over her, that her concerns, her needs always came before hers, and she had a problem with that. Erica: Which, as a woman who has really strong female friendships, yeah nigga, to a point. I just feel like if you come in my life, you need to recognize that until you earn spot number one, nigga you at spot like number 25. Kenrya: Yeah, I think that's true. You're a stranger. I don't know, it sounded like in their situation, they had been together for a little while, but it felt like it was more that she felt threatened... She just felt threatened by their relationship in general, and she probably also had an inkling that Joy was in love with him too. I'm sure that didn't fucking help. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: Yeah, it's different when you know that there's nothing there but friendship. Then if you're insecure- Erica: Because yeah, I just can't imagine in bed with this nigga like, "Your best friend in love with you." "No, no she ain't. No, she ain't." That kind of shit, that shit... Don't gaslight me. Kenrya: Right. Erica: I cannot believe that niggas don't see when they have friends in love with them. Kenrya: I can. I think that sometimes niggas are oblivious, and I ain't going to front, I've been oblivious too. I have been in relationships where dudes have definitely been like, "Oh, he loves you," about a friend. I'll be like, "What the fuck are you talking about?" Erica: Yeah, but I told you. Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah, again, I don't think it's true. That's what I'm saying, if I can be oblivious, other people can be oblivious too, is my point. There's a difference between just genuinely not seeing it and not getting it, because there's no vibe, and knowing that is true, and acting like it's not. Do you know what I'm saying? Like gas lighting, like you were just saying. Erica: I am about to be embarrassingly honest and share something with my listeners. Kenrya: Okay. Erica: I had a friend, and they were... It started off we were dating, and then we stopped dating for whatever reasons. We just became really, really good friends, like the homie, one of my closest guy friends. But as I started moving on to dating, and he moved on to dating, I realized I can't do this shit because I still like this motherfucker. I recently had to cut the shit off. It sucks. It really sucks, because that was my homie. We genuinely had a friendship, but I also think if I was a chick with him I'd be like, "That hoe Erica ain't coming around. This bitch is crazy." Erica: Well also, I got probably fucked up. I got too much pride to be putting myself out there looking crazy, but if you were around us you knew that there was something. We had conversations, like "Would you be comfortable being around a friend," that kind of thing. He was like, "I want to be happy. I'd love to meet a guy," like it was serious. I'm like, "No, fuck that. I'm crazy. I'm going to burn this shit. I'm going to show her sex tapes of us." Erica: I know, it's wrong. Because I had to be honest with myself, like I like you, and although there are reasons that we're not together, I don't need to be front row of some bullshit that you guys... Not bullshit. But front row. Kenrya: You meant that. Erica: Of some bullshit you got going on. It fucking sucks. Particularly, as we've had all these snow days, and I've been just going through shit. I'm like, "Man, I want to call my friend." We were such good friends, that our friend group started getting kind of meshed, and so... Yeah. Kenrya: I'm sorry, I just realized who you were talking about. Erica: Exactly. Even when I told my friends, "Yo, we had to dead it," they were like, "Wait, we can't go hang out with him no more? You bitches." Because again, he was the homie, I was a homie, we had a great relationship, but it just couldn't go any further. Okay, I spilled my shit. Kenrya: I'm sorry. That sucks. Erica: What'd you say? Kenrya: I said, I'm sorry, that sucks. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: You know, I was never a fan of that whole situation, but- Erica: I know you weren't. Kenrya: I understand. Erica: I know you weren't, which is crazy. That was my [inaudible 00:42:10]. That was my- Kenrya: I know, but it always felt like it wasn't going to go where you might want it to go. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: I think I just wanted you to not get sucked into something that couldn't go the way you wanted it to go. Erica: Yeah. Yeah. What was interesting is, once we shed the whole, "Okay, we're not dating," I got to see his ain't shitness, and he got to see my ain't shitness, and we were both in the middle of doing ain't shit shit, and being like, "You know what, we can do this ain't shit shit together, and we'd be good. We'd be fun having doing this ain't shit shit together." Erica: Okay, so Malcolm bought Joy to run interference and be the wing man to Summer and Fox. I kept calling this man Wolf. Kenrya: Calling him Wolf. Erica: I kept calling this man Wolf. I knew it was a- Kenrya: It was a wild animal. Erica: It was a wild animal that my son would want on a T-shirt. I remember when Cracker Barrel, you know the white people shirts of the wolf howling at the moon with sparkles and shit? You know what I'm talking about, right? Kenrya: I do. I do. Erica: We're in Cracker Barrel, as my son calls "Crackerberry," and this man had on this shirt. He came up, and he was like, "Look at his shirt." I was like, "Bro." He was like, "That shirt is so cool. I want one like that for Christmas." I said, "Not on my watch," and insert Iyanla Vanzant GIF. Kenrya: GIF. Why you do him like that? Erica: He don't want it no more, so that's fine. Kenrya: That shirt was going to bring him some joy. Erica: And how he has... I bought him this jacket for Christmas. When I tell you he wore this motherfucker every single day, I was like, "Bro-" Kenrya: Well good. Erica: "You got to wash this shit before you wear it again." The only time he washed a load and got it done quickly, because I was like, "Bro, you can't wear this shit to school." He was like, "Okay, fine," and he washed that shit quick. Okay, anyway, so Malcolm brought Joy to run interference between Fox so he could love up on some Summer. It was actually interesting because Joy was initially like, "This some bullshit. I ain't going to be a part of it," but in her willingness to appease her best friend, which we don't have to go into that, her willingness to appease her best friend, she entertained Fox. Erica: And he wasn't a bad guy, right? Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah. Erica: Have you ever been... Me and Kenrya met in college, right? Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: In my mind, if we were friends in junior high/high school, one, we would have had matching outfits, two, we would have been at the mall. Kenrya: Absolutely. Absolutely. Erica: Three, I would have been like, "Girl, you got to come, because my friend brought a friend." We would have totally been in the car like, "You got a friend for my girlfriend?" Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative), absolutely. That was- Erica: So, I started meeting niggas at the mall, or Northwest Plaza, like, "How you been?" Kenrya: I was like, that was my high school experience with my cousin. That was how we went out with dudes. First of all, we would get dropped off at the strip mall, and then meet dudes at the mall, and walk around outside because it was a strip mall. Or we'd go to the mall-mall, but you had to buy something because you ain't want to look lame without a bag. Erica: Oh, yeah. Kenrya: So, you would buy something cheap and then just- Erica: Claire's. Kenrya: ... you would just walk around. Erica: Claire's maybe. Kenrya: Go to Claire's, exactly. Get something cheap, and then walk around and collect numbers for your pager. Erica: Do you remember collecting numbers? Kenrya: Yes, ma'am. Erica: I remember, I think I mentioned this, Saint Louis, we had a skating rink called The Palace. I remember- Kenrya: Which was in a Children's Palace, which is so wild to me. Erica: Yes. I remember going to The Palace, and I would always go with my cousins, and we would be getting dressed in the mirror, practicing dances and shit, and we'd be ready to walk out and be like, "Oh, make sure you get a piece of paper and a pencil." Kenrya: That's right, something small enough to fit in your shit so you could get numbers. That's right. Erica: Oh my God. Kenrya: Yeah, so that was like we would go to Randall Park Mall, or we would go to Southgate, depending on what we were trying to get into and who were trying to meet. So, if my cousin was over, then I would have whatever dude I had bring somebody for her. So, she would always have a boyfriend that lived on my side of town, and I would have somebody on her side of town. That was when we hung out. We would have... Some of them, it's so funny, I can't remember names. Kenrya: Literally, I was talking to my partner the other day about... He was watching “First 48” or something, and it's in Cleveland, Ohio. Erica: I hate that I love “First 48” so much. Fuck 12. Fuck the police. Niggas With Attitude. Kenrya: But you like “First 48.” Erica: I love “First 48.” Kenrya: I only really watched it with him, but I used to watch it [crosstalk 00:47:38]- Erica: Because when the nigga's blurred out, he's not a suspect. He didn't do it. Kenrya: Yeah, yeah, so you kind of know what's going to happen. It was something where somebody was wearing boots. It was some shit. I was like, "Boo, what time of year was it?" It was some shit. I was telling him that there was some dude... Because I was like, we only wear Timbs when it's wintertime. I was like, "Wearing Timbs outside of the season is some New York shit." I was telling him that there was some dude that I went out with a few times from New York, who was in Cleveland, and he thought he was cool because he was from New York, but he was wearing his Timbs in the summer and we made fun of him. Kenrya: I don't remember his name- Erica: Ole' sweaty foot motherfuckers. Kenrya: Because we called him "Boots." Erica: You called him what? Kenrya: We called that nigga Boots. Erica: He was Boots before Dora had Boots. Kenrya: Nigga, all I remember is that we called him Boots, but he was one of the dudes who he had a cousin. He was in town visiting his cousin, so me and him went out, and we brought him and his cousin came, and my cousin came, and we hung out, and that was what we did. Erica: [crosstalk 00:48:39] from out of town. Kenrya: Because then you see him for a little while, and then he is gone. Erica: And you're like, "Hm." Kenrya: Which is why I can't remember Boots' real name. Erica: I'm exotic. I got a nigga from New York. Kenrya: Exactly. Lord. Erica: Such a summer love. Horrible. Kenrya: As a teenager, yes. As an adult, I am not the one that usually got pulled into those escapades because I used to be a serial monogamist, so I was never free to do be the friend who came out with the person with the friend. I'm thinking of our friends who are those friends though. Erica: Actually, one of our friends is married because she was- Kenrya: One of those friends. Erica: One of those friends. Kenrya: That's right. Erica: And it wasn't even on some... They weren't particularly close. It was just like a girl, "I'm trying to-" Kenrya: "I'm in town." Erica: "I'm in town. I'm trying to see this nigga. Come meet us, because he's bringing his friend." Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: Now these motherfuckers married, with a kid, a whole fucking established life. It is the craziest thing. Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: But also- Kenrya: We got another friend who met their person like that too. Erica: Oh, yeah. But they're a little closer, so that makes [crosstalk 00:49:56]. Kenrya: Yeah, yeah but still. Erica: These are the motherfuckers that give niggas hope. Kenrya: It's a thing. Erica: They see that, and they're like, "See, it's possible." Yo, that is wild. Isn't weird that we're of the age where we can be like, "Yo, I was at the party that they met at. I remember-" Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah. I ended up being the official photographer for one of our friends at the start of their relationship. When they got to their anniversary, they hit me up like, "You got pictures, right?" Erica: Oh, I- Kenrya: From the first time they met. Erica: I remember, that day was epic. We had a good time that night. Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah. Erica: We can literally be like, "That day," the specific day they met. Kenrya: Literally the day that y'all met. Erica: And now they're married with kids, living a whole entire life. They've built a life together. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Goddamn. Dammit. I was going to say, I'm old and complaining about it, but you know what, I am happy that I have been able to live and experience these things. Kenrya: Absolutely. Erica: I was always one of the... Even to this day, I'll be like, my single ass, "He got a cousin? He got a daddy?" Oh, I got a shirt for Christmas. It says, "If you see me with your daddy, mind your business." Kenrya: Mind your business, yeah. Erica: It's like, you knew me. It's so perfect. Kenrya: It's perfect. Erica: I think I have always been... I'd bring a friend, and they don't even know. I'm like, "Girl, just come on." They're like, "What the fuck?" Yeah, I mean whatever. Kenrya: Sometimes it works out. Erica: Yeah, sometimes it works out. Sometimes it don't. Okay, that's all I got. You got anything else for us, Kenrya, before we move on to our next segment? Kenrya: I'm trying to think. Yes. Erica: Okay. Kenrya: Okay, so we were talking about how previous relationships that Malcolm had been in, chicks had issues with Joy. If you were the chick on the other side of that equation, if you were Summer, because Summer kept trying to talk to Joy. How would you approach the situation if you were the new girlfriend in the scenario, and dude had somebody he was close to in that way? Thinking about how Summer approached it, how would you approach it? Erica: This reminds me of a story, and this is going to sum up my mother in one story. I was married. I was having all these fucking issues... Not all these issues. I was having... Damn, do I even need to tell that story? Fuck it. So, I was having these issues with my ex-husband and his mother. Let's make it very clear, it was not like some meddling issues. It wasn't that. It was just like, married, blending families, complications. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: So, I called my mom and I'm like, "Mama, this is what's going on. I don't know what to do." Mama was like, "Hm, I only dated niggas whose mamas was dead." Kenrya: True. Erica: What? Kenrya: Goddamn it, that's your mama. Erica: Dammit, Judy. Dammit. So, I thought about that as you tell this story, because I'm kind of like, that wouldn't even be my motherfucking problem. Like, "Bro, I got to go." Here's the thing, I recognize how important my friendships are to me, and if you can't keep that separate and keep me out of this shit, then I don't want it. I feel like that would never be me, because either you know my best friend don't fuck with you... It's kind of like you, and I love your partner, but you're not one of those people that "We all going to go on a trip together." That just ain't you. Erica: So, it's totally fine if I was like, "I don't really fuck with your partner," because all right- Kenrya: Unless it was a real, like this nigga kicks puppies. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: Or pinches babies. Erica: Exactly, but if you're like, "Okay, fine." And to keep us apart, but it's like that's not where we are. That's not what we do. If you're like me, and if you wanted me to kick it with your people, great. But you're going to kick it with my motherfucking crew. So, if you're like me and you and... I'm thinking of Kelly, and what's Issa's brother? Kenrya: Oh, fuck. God, they hate each other. That shit is cold. [crosstalk 00:55:22]. Erica: ... attention like that. Generally, no I'm not even going to be a part of that situation. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: What about you? Kenrya: If I got to talk to her, then it's gone too far. Then I'm not good. Erica: That's kind of I feel, yeah. Kenrya: To me, it is the person in the middle's job to set boundaries and hold them. For example, when my partner and I first got together, he had a best friend. I never met her. She lives out of town, but- Erica: I remember this. Kenrya: Yeah. She was leaving inappropriate comments on his posts and things like that. Erica: Calling at inappropriate times. Kenrya: I didn't like that shit. Yeah, and I was like, "Nah. Nah, this is disrespectful and you need to nip that shit in the bud." Erica: And- Kenrya: And he didn't- Erica: Oh, sorry. Kenrya: Oh, go ahead. Erica: Keep going. Kenrya: He didn't necessarily at first think that she was being disrespectful, because it was just the way that they had related for so many years. But he heard that it made me uncomfortable, and he talked to her, and that shit stopped. Erica: I think that as a friend, you need to know, "Oh shit-" Kenrya: "This is serious. Oh y'all not just fucking around." Erica: Yeah, if you come to me and be like, "Hey, my girl-" me in this situation with this dude, I'm always going... The nature of our relationship, in spite of us being friends, there is going to be a level of inappropriateness between us on some friendship shit. Like, nigga I done seen your dick. No, bro. Had I not cut it off- Kenrya: You would have been- Erica: I would have been cut off. Kenrya: You wouldn't have been to cut that. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: And that's essentially what happened in my situation. Erica: I'm fine with it. Kenrya: Sorry, not sorry. I'm not sorry at all, because he told her, and she did, she backed off, but also I think it changed their relationship. But it needed to because- Erica: Because you weren't... When the ways of a man [crosstalk 00:57:39] child, and a child in a man. Corinthians 22. Kenrya: Yes, we are grown-ups now, and he is in a grown-up ass relationship. I didn't have to step in, and I wouldn't have, and that's the thing. If it gets to the point where I feel like I got to say something, then I wish you well. Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yep. [inaudible 00:57:58]. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Okay, well. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: That is it for the penultimate discussion of season two. We will take a break and be back with our segment. Kenrya: What's Turning Us On. Kenrya: Hey y'all, today's a great day to start your own podcast. Whether you're looking for a new marketing channel, have a message you want to share with the world, or just think it'd be fun to have your own show like us, podcasting is an easy, inexpensive and fun way to expand your reach online. Buzzsprout is hands down the easiest and best way to launch, promote, and track your podcast. Kenrya: Your show gets put online, and listed in all the major podcast directories like Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google, literally everything, within minutes of finishing and uploading your recording. We use it here for The Turn On, and I can truly attest to the fact that it's pretty fucking dope. Podcasting isn't hard when you have the right partners, and the team at Buzzsprout is passionate about helping you succeed. So, join over 100,000 podcasters like us, who are already using Buzzsprout to get their message out to the world. Kenrya: Just click the link in our show notes, and you'll be able to get your own account set up. If you sign up for a paid plan, you'll get a $20.00 Amazon gift card and support our show. Let's create something great together. Sign up for Buzzsprout today. Erica: Okay, we're back. We are going to talk about what is turning me on. Back in episode seven and a half, when we interviewed with Jamila White, she talked about this book “Jambalaya,” because we were talking about crystals and your intuition, and Crystal Pussy Twitter keeps coming up in my head. Kenrya: Yeah, yeah. Erica: Anyway, this book, “Jambalaya,” is really great. I think I told you, I am re-examining where I am spiritually, like how does this fit in with Christianity, and the shit that I taught. I feel like this is tightly aligned with where I am sexually, my philosophy as a sex educator, and yada-yada-yada. This book, “Jambalaya,” was introduced to me a while back because it has not only... It's not only information about African traditional religion, it talks about reclaiming your magic as a divine being. Erica: It also has in here rituals. It has in here rituals. It also has little bios of important folks, like Marie Laveau. So, I like this because this is kind of my one stop intro into... I'm sorry, this light is hitting this crazy. This is my one-stop intro as I delve into African traditional religions. Actually, I need to look at this because I need to put a... I have my dog's ashes, and I'm like, "Can I put this on my altar or not?" Erica: Anyway, this book is great. I guess you can read it from top to bottom, but for me it's just kind of been one of those things where I have been bouncing around- Kenrya: Dipped in, like a resource. Yeah. Erica: Yep. This is great. I love it. I think everyone, if you were in a space where you're trying to figure out your relationship to your spirituality and religion, definitely give it a try. It's called “Jambalaya,” and I will include a link in the... I was about to say in the bio. In the show notes. Kenrya: Go. All right. Erica: All right, so that's it. Erica and Kenrya, two hoes making it clap. Kenrya: Okay, bye. [theme music] Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Hit subscribe right now in your favorite podcast app and at YouTube.com/TheTurnOnPodcast, so you'll never miss an episode. Erica: Then follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. And you can find links to books, transcripts, guest info, what's turning us on, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Kenrya: And don't forget to email us at [email protected] with your book recommendations and your pressing sex-and related questions. Erica: And you can support the show by leaving us a five-star review, buying some merch or becoming a patron of the show. Just head to TheTurnOnPodcast.com to make that happen. Kenrya: Thanks for listening and we'll see you soon. Holla.
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Amazon Music | Apple Podcasts | Google Play | iHeart Radio | Pandora | Radio Public | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | YouTube CONNECT WITH THE TURN ON Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | Goodreads | Patreon SHOW NOTES In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya read "His Only Wife" by Peace Medie and talk about family bullshit, the lessons we teach our children about love, the sexiness of confident decision making and refusing to make "the best" out of a bad situation. RESOURCES
ADVERTISEMENT Buzzsprout The Turn On participates in affiliate programs, which provide a small commission when you purchase products via links on this site. This costs you nothing, but helps support the show. Click here for more information. TRANSCRIPT Kenrya: Come here. Get off. [theme music] Erica: Hey, y’all. So, welcome to this week's episode of The Turn On. This is your lovely host, Erica and Killa. So, we are going to be reading “His Only Wife,” written by Peace Medie? Peace Medie, does that sound about right? Kenrya: Yeah. That's how I've been seeing it. Erica: Okay, Peace Medie. Written in September of 2020. So, sit back, relax, get your wine, weed, whatever you need and enjoy. Kenrya: “His Only Wife,” by Peace Adzo Medie. When I walked into the bedroom, Eli was sitting at the foot of my bed, a towel around his waist. He smiled and patted the space beside him when he saw me and I gingerly did as he asked. "Are you okay?" He asked. "Yes." "Are you okay with me staying?" he asked, clarifying his question. His hands on his thighs. "Yes," I said again. But what was I going to say? He was my husband and he was sitting on my bed almost naked. He hadn't dried himself properly and drops of water clung to the hair on his chest. And now, the rose fragrance of my Lux soap mixed with his scent so that he smelled like both of us combined. Kenrya: He interrupted my observations with a kiss that began on my lips and trailed over my dress down to my belly. I jumped off the bed when he began to move lower knocking his head with my knee in the process. "Sorry, sorry," I said mortified. "What's wrong?" he asked, rising to his feet before me. One hand rubbing his forehead. He looked concerned. "Nothing," I said. Then added, "Please, I want to switch the light off." "Okay," he said reluctantly and watched me as I scooted to the bedside to switch off the lamp. I lingered there after the room went dark, contemplating my next move. I soon sensed him behind me and then felt his hand tugging at my zipper. I stood still as he peeled my dress off, his hand touching, caressing. Kenrya: When I was naked before him, even though the air conditioner was running at full blast, I felt hot as though I had a fever. And this time, when he kissed me, his lips made contact with my skin, my nipples, my belly and that place between my legs where I lose all sense of myself, where everything but my body ceases to exist. I forgot about the hair, about having not showered before, it was only after I lay on his damp chest after he had slid into me and caused me to moan so loudly that I feared the security people at the gate had heard me. After he had chanted my name while moving inside me, his eyes half closed, his breath ragged. It was only after all of this that I wondered if he had expected me to be a virgin. I hope not. Erica: Hey, all. So, Kenrya, thank you so much for that wonderful reading. Okay. So, “His Only Wife” written by Peace Medie, September, 2020. Let's give a quick synopsis. You want to do it? You want me to... Kenrya: It's all you, playa. Erica: Oh, all right. So, then there's this chick, her name is Afi. She has a mom, of course, most people do. So, she has a mom. Her dad passed away when she was young and her and her mom have been essentially cared for by her uncle, her dad's brother. Also, this book is set in Ghana. So, when her dad died, tradition says that her dad's brother essentially takes care of the family. Her dad's brother is a fucking jerk. And it's not the best situation for her and her mom. Erica: Her mom has this homegirl that she worked for. And her homegirl has a son. So, her mom's homegirl goes to her mom as like, "Look, I want to arrange a marriage between my son and your daughter." So, the book opens with this chick at her wedding day, except this man ain't even there. I mean, he agreed to get married to her, but it was very clear that he's just doing this to appease his mom. Erica: His brother stands in for him. And then, he calls on speaker phone, he's like, "Yeah. I'm away on travel. Have fun at this wedding. And I'll see you when I see you." So, there's that. So then, they get married. She gets married to him through his brother, whatever. Kenrya: It's a wedding in absentia. Erica: Okay. Yeah. So, that happens. And so then, Afi and her mom moved to the big city and essentially they're set up in this apartment and it's like, "Okay. This is your apartment as a couple. Get it set up, start your life. Your husband will be there to meet you." And then, hijinks ensue dot dot dot. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Is that the best way? Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: There's a lot that happens, but I don't want to get too far. Kenrya: How much do we say? Yeah. Erica: Yeah. And I'll be very honest. I'm probably going to give some spoilers. Not many, but it's hard to tell a story without it, right? Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Okay. So, first, when I read the description of the book, I think they described it as a fairytale. No, she gets swept away into a fairytale life because that's how it's sold to her. The family's like, "He's super rich. He's super handsome. You'll be his wife. You get to move to the city and be like this." Kenrya: Have a new life. Erica: Have a new life. Yeah. She is really interested in... Kenrya: She makes- Erica: I was going to say clothes construction. I know there's a better term for it. Kenrya: She's a- Erica: Yeah. She's a fashion designer. And so, she was doing work in the city... I mean, in her village, but now she's in the city and he has friends and family and is super connected. So, on the strength of his name, she gets a job at this amazing fashion designer’s company. And she's her assistant or something like that. So, yeah. It's sold as a fairytale and her whole family is in her ear the entire fucking time like, "This is perfect for you. This is perfect for you." For two reasons: one, her uncle who is just horrible, right? Kenrya: I hate that nigga. Erica: Yeah. He was... Kenrya: From the beginning. Erica: From the beginning. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: He treated her family... Her and her mom as an afterthought. But then, when this happened, she became the cash cow and it was like, "Okay. I took care of you, how are you going to take care of us?" And he would do stupid shit like... Kenrya: Showing up- Erica: Showing up. Kenrya: And not leaving until they gave him money. Erica: Dumping his kids on them. Remember that? Yeah. So, the whole... Kenrya: He didn't even treat her as a... He wouldn't even let them stay with him after her dad died. He was a piece of shit. Erica: Yeah. So, there was that. He was treating them like shit. And so, her uncle was like, "This is more money. Go do it." Her mom is like, "You get to be..." Was there a thing of disgrace? Kenrya: Well, she had a relationship with the mother of her new husband. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: And she's the one who basically took them in and took care of them after the father died. And so, for her being able to supply a wife felt like payback for all the ways that this woman had helped her over the years. Erica: Yes. Kenrya: And so, she felt like she'd be disgraced within her church circle and within the community if her daughter didn't take advantage of this opportunity that was put in front of her. Erica: Yeah. And you mentioned a church circle, reminded me of a part of the story because... Yeah. There was all this pressure on her by the family to do something, to marry this man. And then, you mentioned the church circle. I guess this is a spoiler, but whatever. So, part of the reason why he's not there is because this man got a whole ’nother mistress. Kenrya: Wife. Erica: Yeah. Common law, right? Or whatever. They're not married, but that's his wife. Kenrya: No, they were married, but they were divorced or something. He filed paperwork. The story is that they were married, but then he dissolved it, is the story that was passed down. Erica: Oh, okay. And that's another thing. It was... Kenrya: There's a lot of versions of stories. Erica: It was written in book. So, it seemed like she made up something, I made up something. But yeah. The whole situation was just well, he had this chick and this happened and this happened. So, it was a bunch of telephone about what's really going on. But long story short, she goes into the big city with her mom. She has a driver and this amazing condo and she just lives alone, waiting for her husband to show up. Erica: And I found it interesting. And I think I've seen this in relationships that I've had. I've seen this in relationships around me. His family totally co-signed on his fuck shit just for the sake of him getting a woman that they approve of. I was talking to this chick who was telling me about how she was dating this guy and his mother was like, "Girl, get out." Yeah. She was like, "This ain't where you need to be. I have a nice son, but this ain't for you." Kenrya: Damn. Erica: And I was like, "Damn. That's pretty selfless of the mom to be like..." Because there are a lot of times that families are like, "Yeah, girl. He's the best." Because they want him off their payroll. Kenrya: Listen, I had somebody tell me, "Oh, I'm so glad you're here so you can take care of him now." And I was young and dumb. Erica: "Yeah. I'll take care of him." Yeah. No, that was... Kenrya: Thought it was a joke. It was not a joke. Erica: At all. And so, every time there was a disappointment or some fuck shit. I was going to say... The whole marriage was some fuck shit, but it was very quiet fuck shit. There wasn't like any... I'm out in the street, cussing a nigga out fuck shit. So, the family was like, "It's okay. You'll be fine." Which made me think... So, at some point the husband, Eli, does show up and he had enough... He kept giving her crumbs that kept making her hope and think that more would happen. And even as I was reading the book, I was really rooting for Eli at one point. And then, I'm like, "Wait, he's a jerk. What the fuck?" Kenrya: For him to get it together and be who she wanted him to be. Erica: Yes. But then, I was like... I mean, she wrote really good characters because who the fuck roots for the villain? And he was the villain. Kenrya: I don't know if he was the villain. Erica: I mean, his whole family was the villain, but he was a villain. Kenrya: His mama, to me, was the villain. It's interesting. Erica: But he went along with that shit. Kenrya: Oh, but then... Yeah. Erica: He went along with that shit. Kenrya: I just remembered the end. Erica: He went along with that shit and he went along with giving her hope. It would be different if they got together and he was like, "Look, this situation, my family's fucking driving me crazy. So, here we are, you can live this life. I'll continue to care for you, but this is what it's going to be." I would've been like, "Cool." Kenrya: Cool. Erica: But he was on this, I'm going to sell you this dream. And so, to me, that's what made him villain. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: And this happens a lot of times, granted you weren't the one pulling the trigger, but you definitely were the one sopping up all the rewards of this fucked up situation. And so, yeah. That definitely made him the villain in my eyes, which is why when I was rooting for him to get his shit together. I was like, "Wait, bitch. I can't do this. You're on the wrong team." Kenrya: "What am I doing?" Erica: And it also made me wonder about Eli's mistress, Mona... Mistress, wife, the other chick. It made me think about her side of the story. What was she being told? Kenrya: I'm sure she was being told half truths the entire fucking time. Erica: Yeah. I mean, on one hand, yes, I do... It's hard because the way his family and friends talked about her made me feel like she wasn't the type of character that would be down for some fuck shit. That wouldn't even believe half truths that would be fed to her. Kenrya: Yeah. But I don't actually think that the way that they represented her was authentic to who she was. I think it was this story that they put together to make her seem unpalatable because there's another character who actually has met her and she was like, "She's great. She's not this terrible bitchy ‘don't come near my child, don't speak to me’ person that she is being portrayed to be." Erica: Yes. And I understand that this was all coming from a “we hate her” lens. But even though we hate her lens, reading what they were saying she did, through the lens of we hate her. To me, it just sounded like she was a very independent, I'm not going for bullshit kind of woman. Kenrya: She stood up for herself. Erica: Simple as that. She stood up for her herself. Kenrya: Yeah. And they didn't like that shit. Erica: What'd you say? Kenrya: And they ain't like that shit. They wanted somebody they could run. Erica: Exactly. And so, for that reason, I feel like she was probably giving that nigga the business when he got home. Because when he spent a significant period of time, was she pissed at him and left? Or was she just on vacation? Kenrya: She was out of the country. Erica: I thought it was on some, "I'm gone, I need some space." Type shit. Kenrya: Again. I think that there were so many lies. I think she was legitimately just out of the country, but they made it seem as if she was fleeing. I think that... It can be hard when people are constantly fucking lying, but I just feel like it became clearer and clearer that you really couldn't trust anything that anyone in his family said. Yeah. Including him. Erica: Yeah. And there was this whole... We're together for the sake of the kids. That's what Eli was telling Afi like, "My kid's sick and we're together for the sake of the kids." I have heard that from a number of men where they're like, "We're together for the sake of the kids." And some women. And I'm like, "Do you truly believe that?" And I do think some people truly believe that it's better just to be together and have an arrangement per se, than just being apart and happy. Kenrya: Sounds terrible to me. Erica: Do you think people really believe that? Kenrya: Yeah. I know some people right now who are with their people who they like well enough, but aren't necessarily in love with them because they feel like they want to give their children this two parent household. In a lot of cases, those people didn't have that growing up. And so, they have this idea that that is somehow better for their children. And I'm speaking specifically right now, some folks who are not at each other's throats all the time, but aren't really... Erica: In love. Kenrya: Yeah. But they're like, "Well, we'll do this until the kids is gone. And then, we can figure out what to do after that." And then, experienced people who use it in the way that I feel like Eli was where it's like, "I am using this as my cover story to continue to not give you what you need and what you're asking for. And still be able to spend time and be a life of this person who I claim I don't want to be with because we have this child and I can use that relationship as a pawn." Right? Kenrya: But yeah, I do think that there are some people who think that that is better. But I know, for me, the thing that made me leave past relationships is I did not want my child to think she had to settle. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: For less than. Erica: I want my child to see happiness. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: And joy and love. And even if it's just me loving on myself, I want you to grow up in a home like that. Yeah. Kenrya: Yeah. And kids aren't stupid. Erica: I met a guy, he has a fucking three month old and was on that shit. I was like, "Nigga, you got a long fucking way." Kenrya: Oh, my God. Erica: Yeah. I think that was more his story he was telling himself and thinking, "I gave a fuck about." Like, "Nigga, no. Because one, either you're married or two, you can't make a strong decision and stick with it." Either way, I ain't fucking- Kenrya: Also, three months. Erica: Right? Kenrya: I don't want nobody that's got a three month old because that's a huge time commitment. And you're going to have to spend a lot of time with your ex. So, you should just focus there for a while. Erica: Did tell you about the guy I matched with that had the kid. Kenrya: I don't think so. Erica: So, I was on the apps, matched with this guy. We're talking. I'm like, "Oh, you got kids?" He said, "Yeah, I got a daughter. She was just born." Kenrya: Oh. Erica: And then, he went into this like, "Oh, but we're not together." And I'm like, "That is the last of my... Even if y’all was together, you have an infant. So, there ain't much time for lovey dovey shit." So, that ain't even my concern. My concern is this chick just pushed a whole fucking baby out. Her entire life is consumed with this child and your ass out here on apps. And I was talking to him- Kenrya: Like fucking Lawerence on “Insecure.” Erica: Yes. And I was talking to this guy about it and he was like, "Yeah. Well, at that age, there's not much for it. The kid is really dependent on the mom." Or something. I'm like, "Okay." Kenrya: The last person that said that to me almost got kicked in the fucking throat. Erica: I was like, "Even if that's how you see it, your role needs to be 24/7 support. Your ass needs to be there making breakfast, making lunch, making cooling pads. Whatever the fuck it is that's happening, you need to be there supporting her, even if y’all not together." It's crazy because people... Yeah, it's crazy. And I can't help but think about what's the other person thinking of. Erica: And not that I'm captain save a hoe, but I find myself asking a lot when I'm dating and you have kids. “So, what's your custody arrangements?” Because to me, that says a lot. If you, one, are willing to leave your kids, not that you don't trust the mother, but leave your kids with their mom 24/7. And also, you're just fucking evil and stingy because I know when that kid crosses a graduation stage or shows up at the Grammys, your Black ass is going to be there front row. Kenrya: Talking about, "That's my baby." When you ain't did shit for them. Erica: Exactly. So, anyway. Okay. So, you mentioned this, there was a person that was Afi's friend and really.... Was her real support through this whole situation. It was Evelyn. So, Afi and her mom moved into this condo building and they had this amazing condo. There was a chick on the same floor down the hall, Evelyn, who was her brother's mistress and she had a condo. Kenrya: Her brother-in-law's mistress. Erica: You're right. The whole family got a whole... Yeah. Her brother-in-law's mistress and that relationship I found interesting. I thought initially that Evelyn and... Afi had a cousin that was her closest cousin. Kenrya: Oh, yeah. Who she talked to- Erica: Who I thought... For a minute, I was like, "Oh. This is a nice, stable, sane person you can talk to through this." But when shit started going left, then the cousin was like... Well, I think everybody, but the cousin was like, "Just stick around. It'll be okay." Where Evelyn was doing the same thing, but Evelyn was on some like, "This is what it's going to be. So, you need to make the best of it." Which I think is... What'd you say? Kenrya: Well, yeah. But also, to make a choice, right? Like, "Are you going to stay here with this being what it is and make the best of it? Or are you going to just be like, 'Fuck it.'" But make a choice. Erica: Yes. And I think her cousin was on the stay, and not make the best of it, but stay and be delusional about the fact that this man got a whole ’nother wife and kid. Kenrya: It was definitely a more traditional view. Erica: A more traditional view. And again, it made me think about... For me, I would've loved... I mean, I loved the story because it was a really well written book. But I definitely would've loved had Eli been like, "Little girl, this is my family, they acting a fool, but here you can have all of this..." Because essentially he was ready to give her all of that. Home, all of this shit. Erica: And I definitely got sad a little bit when Afi started chasing the idea that she was really going to be his wife. Initially, she saw it for what it was. Kenrya: She was skeptical. Erica: Right? And then, she slowly started digging into the concept of, "This is my husband, I'm his wife." And so, when she got to the point where she dug her heels in and was like, "Look, I want this." I'm trying to figure out how not to... Kenrya: Don't say too much. Yeah. Erica: Yeah. When she was like, "I want this." And made an ultimatum, I was just like, "Oh, bitch. Come on, girl. I was rooting for you." Because you could tell it was one of the situations where she truly felt like, "This is my rightful place." Kenrya: Because she fell in love. At first she was skeptical about the whole thing, especially because he didn't show up at the wedding. But then, once he did show up, she fell for him. Before, he was an idea. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: And then, he was a person who was telling her all the things that she wanted to hear. Erica: I have had relationships and people in my life where they were easy to love, easy to fall for. And I have like, not so much as written down a list, but I definitely kept a list of shit they did in my head to remind myself as I start slipping.... I mean, shit, even now as I'm dating and I think about settling for someone that doesn't fit the criteria, hold the values, that check off all the boxes for me, which it's not like got to be taller than 5'7". But don't check off all the boxes for me, I have to remind myself of how it feels to be in a marriage with someone that is not for you. And then, that's like, "Okay, girl. You can't do this." Kenrya: Don't do this. Erica: And I needed Afi to... She should have had that shit written on her hand. Like, "This nigga did not show up to our wedding, didn't show up to our wedding." Because it was just like, "Girl." And it's difficult. Kenrya: But she's so young. Erica: And I was going to say, it's difficult because she's young and she has her family.... Not even just her family, everybody in her ear talking about- Kenrya: And on her back. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: Her wealth that she gets from being married into this family really impacts her family. They don't have a lot. And so, she's not just carrying her own emotions and hopes and dreams. She's carrying all of their shit too. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: For better or for worse. Erica: And her mom was really on something like... Not even just wealth, but like you said, her mom and her mom's entire social life, support system, all of that. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: And so, it was sad. But by the end of the book... I think about the character at the beginning of the book and the end of the book, two totally different people. I do think, by the end of the book, she had grown and used some of those experiences to shape her into who she was. But you could see the growth that she had done in that period and how it helped propel her and her family into a place of peace, into a place of, "This is where we are, this is how things are and I'm good with that." Erica: I mean, yeah, she was young. She wasn't able to push back or push her ideas. I'm thinking by the end of the story, was her mom back with her? Kenrya: She had set her up somewhere. Erica: Oh, yeah. She sure did. And so, I think that's why her mom was a little more like, "Okay, girl. Do whatever you want to." Because her mom was like, "I'm good now. Peace out." Okay. The relationship with Afi and Eli's family. It reminds me of how when you're in a relationship with someone... And I'm not sure if you felt it, maybe you have, because we both live in a city where we don't have any family right here with us, right? Erica: And so, it's easy for us to get consumed by our partner’s family, because we don't have our family with us. You get what I'm saying? Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: And so, again, it's easy to hear everybody in your ear about them, but occasionally you have somebody in the family that's like, "Even in spite of that girl, dude was right for you." I was hoping Eli's sister was that person. But again, she was just all in that fuck shit. It was reading the... What? Kenrya: No, I was just... Yeah, they were uniformly- Erica: Uniformly on this... We're just going to help mind fuck this girl into... And it was just really... I don't even think it was on some, "We care about Eli." It was just on some like, "We hate this other bitch. So, we are going to do everything we can to take that situation down." But it reminded me when I was younger living out here because my family is so close and it connected and we get together often and all that kind of thing, I found myself in other relationships being so a part of their family that it would influence our relationship. You follow me? Kenrya: I think so, yeah. Erica: Which fucking sucked. Obviously, you probably haven't because you be like, "Hmm." Kenrya: Yeah. I mean, you know me, Erica: I know you. Kenrya: I'll be in a corner minding my fucking business. So, not so much. Yeah. All I'm thinking of are times when people came with me wrong and I had to let them know. So, that's all I got. Erica: Yeah. I know exactly the situation that you are talking about. It definitely reminded me that. Okay. So, another thing that this story really... I don't know if it was triggering, triggering is probably the wrong word. Afi wanted to be the perfect wife for Eli. Again, I think it had a lot to do with her youth, but it was... Kenrya: And culture. Erica: Yeah. Oh, this book was such an interesting look at the Ghanaian culture and the city. Peace did a really good job of describing the streets and how things looked and smelled and all the bustling in the city versus the village. She did a really good job of all of that. Erica: Okay. So, yeah. So, she wanted to be such the perfect wife and her mama was all on her ass like, "Girl, do this. This is what a wife does. This is what a wife does." Even down to the... They had means to have a maid and somebody clean and all of that. And she was like, "No, I'm going to do this to prove myself and prove my worth as a wife." Kenrya: Or she would make three different meals because she didn't know what he liked. And she wanted to make sure that he would love what I ever she made. So, when he showed up, she'd have three meals completely prepared for him, shit that it took her two days to make. Erica: Ugh. I used to. And it was when I connected my value, what I could do or what I could produce. I don't do that shit no more because I'm like, "Look, you here because it’s me either you like it or you don't, but my ability to keep clean baseboards ain't got shit to do with that." Also, I think people forget how little of a fuck niggas give about that shit. Kenrya: Yeah. They don't pay- Erica: They don't pay attention to that. No, they don't. Maybe having extra food is nice. Kenrya: They're like most people, they're thinking about how you make them feel. Erica: Yeah. And three meals don't. Although nice, not so much. I was talking to a friend last night, she did an at home date with this guy because COVID and this nigga delivered meals from three different restaurants to the house so that she could pick. And I was like, "Now, that was cute." Also, because she was like... "I said I was coming over, we were going to eat dinner. And he made a decision. He picked food." She was like, "It was a sexiest thing." Like, "Yes, it is." Kenrya: Yeah. Making decisions- Erica: What'd you say? Kenrya: Making good decisions is- Erica: Or just make... Well, yes. But first step is just making a fucking decision. Kenrya: Well, that's why I put good in the- Erica: Yeah. Because I was thinking... I think we might have mentioned this on the show before, but we've had conversations about guys that are like, "Well, what do you want? What do you want? What do you want?" And I had to remember... I mean, I had this with guys like, "Well, what do you want? What do you want?" I'm like, "Okay. Look, I want you to make a decision. I will find something to eat wherever we go. Pick." Erica: If you still say, "What do you want?" Or like, "No, you pick." I'm going to fucking flip a table. Because I've been very clear about the situation at hand. And I probably also include in that speech, I like a man that can make a decision. That can make a decisive decision. Kenrya: Well, and you can ask questions to make it. I remember when I was going on the first date that almost didn't happen with my partner when I thought- Erica: The decision. Kenrya: We got disconnected and washed my hair. Before that. No, this was before that, when his phone- Erica: Oh, yeah. Kenrya: Something happened and it wasn't taking messages. And I thought that this nigga ghosted me, so I washed my hair and settled in. What he ended up doing was... He had already asked me about my food preferences and allergies just in the course of conversation. And he still does this. I mean, now he knows what I eat. But he researched a ton of restaurants and then found something that he knew would have at least... Kenrya: Literally, his thing was I had to be able to eat at least five things on a menu that weren't salads. And so, he would only take me to places that met that criteria. So, I would go wherever he picked because he took the time to figure out what I liked and what I couldn't eat. And then, he would just make a fucking decision and we would go. Erica: That is so nice. So, you weren't relegated to eat in [crosstalk 00:38:53]. Kenrya: Exactly. Erica: Cheese off the top. Kenrya: And I remember texting you and one of our friends and being like, "This is nice, right? Because the bar's on the floor." So, I was like, [inaudible 00:39:09]. "This is nice." Erica: Is this expected? Nice. And that's the shit that sucks. Because as you're dating, you're like, "Am I supposed to be excited about this? Because I'm excited, but is this..." Kenrya: "Or is this basic?" Erica: "Am I basic? Or is this nice?" Kenrya: Right. Erica: Play a whole fucking... Kenrya: It's the whole game. Erica: The whole game. Kenrya: It's a terrible game. Erica: And this story... It made me think. I remember I was in a relationship. I might have mentioned which one before on the show. But I was in a relationship and my partner, the person I was dating at the time did something I was so excited about and I told my therapist and she was like, "Girl, you got crumbs. You're excited about crumbs?" And I was like, "Well, when you put it that way, I feel dumb." Erica: She didn't mean to make me feel dumb, but this entire fucking story was her just getting crumbs and making due and being happy with it. And it hurt my heart because it was one of... She was just a baby stuck in a... Also, he moved her from her family, isolation. Kenrya: Isolation. Erica: He moved her from her family and she was just a baby, just trying to figure this out on her own fucking sucks, especially when you have no support to help you make good decisions. Kenrya: Oh, yeah. Because y’all, Erica said that her mom came, but she just came to get her settled and she went home. Erica: Oh, yeah. Kenrya: She was just by herself out here in a new city trying to figure shit out. Erica: In a new city, not even being from the city. It'd be different if she was from another city and was like, "Okay. This is a new city, but I can still make my way around." She was even fucking amazed at the number of... I think she went to the grocery store or something and was amazed at the number of something she could select. Kenrya: Or when she went to the indoor mall. Erica: Yes. Kenrya: It was like, "This is not the market." Erica: Yeah. Which further ingrains in me that I have to make sure that what I'm doing with my child and the little children around me, little people around me is being a person that is supportive. And yes, all parents have a... "I want my kid’s life to look like whatever." I'm not into specifics. Mine is generally just happy and out my house, whatever. And out my house more from being self-sufficient but not like "You got to rush out." Erica: But anyway. And so, this just reminds me that even if it's something that I want my kids to do, I just got to give them the space because I don't want them to feel like if I make a decision, they're going to let me down. All right. That's all I got. You got anything else? Kenrya: I don't think so. Erica: Okay. Well, we're going to take a break. And then, we will get to our next segment. Kenrya: What's turning us on? Kenrya: Hey, y’all. Today's a great day to start your own podcast. Whether you're looking for a new marketing channel, have a message you want to share with the world, or just think it'd be fun to have your own show like us, podcasting is an easy, inexpensive and fun way to expand your reach online. And Buzzsprout is hands down the easiest and best way to launch, promote and track your podcast. Kenrya: Your show gets put online and listed in all the major podcast directories like Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google, literally everything within minutes of finishing and uploading your recording. We use it here for The Turn On and I can truly attest to the fact that it's pretty fucking dope. Podcasting isn't hard when you have the right partners and the team at Buzzsprout is passionate about helping you succeed. Kenrya: So, join over 100,000 podcasters like us who are already using Buzzsprout to get their message out to the world. Just click the link in our show notes and you'll be able to get your own account set up. And if you sign up for a paid plan, you'll get a $20 Amazon gift card and support our show. Let's create something great together. Sign up for Buzzsprout today. Erica: Okay, you all, we're back. So, what's turning me on? Recently I went to a conference... I have this thing about books. I love books. I can't stop buying them. Every time I buy one, the other ones cackle, "Welcome. You'll be sitting on this shelf to just be stared at." But I be reading my books. Erica: Anyway. So, what's turning me on? This book. It is called, “Let's Talk About It, Teens Guide to Sex Relationships and Being a Human Being.” I like this because it's one of those books that helps parents talk to their kids about sex, but it's more like a graphic novel. Kenrya: Oh, that's dope. Erica: And it has like, "What is gender and sexuality? What is a relationship? What is consent? What is the first?" That kind of thing. But what I really like about it is that it uses all types, all color, sizes and ethnicities as well as abilities. So, see there, there's a person in a wheelchair. There's some Black people. There's a White guy, fat and it's not a book that sugar coats anything, see? Kenrya: Right. Erica: There's a vagina. Those are nipples and breasts and they look different. So, I really like this book because one, it helps kids. As a parent, it helps you talk about sex with your kid, especially if you're a parent that's just like, "Here, read this book, we'll talk about it later." Erica: And it features all colors, all sizes, all shapes. And I just think it is so dope. They even have a chapter on sexting. So, I think this is a really dope book for parents of little people. I definitely think it's a little bit older. Kenrya: I was going to say, what age group do you think it's best for? Erica: I think teens. Teens, preteens, don't give this to your third grader. Yeah. They talk about porn and how you can safely navigate kinks in porn. But it ain't really real what... It's not always really real. So, yeah. This is what's turning me on, a book that helps you, as a parent, talk to your little people about sex, your medium people. We don't call them little people, medium people about sex. Okay. I'm good. Anything else for the good of order? All righty. Well, this is Erica and Kenrya, two hoes making a clap. [theme music] Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Hit subscribe right now in your favorite podcast app and at YouTube.com/TheTurnOnPodcast, so you'll never miss an episode. Erica: Then follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. And you can find links to books, transcripts, guest info, what's turning us on, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Kenrya: And don't forget to email us at [email protected] with your book recommendations and your pressing sex-and related questions. Erica: And you can support the show by leaving us a five-star review, buying some merch or becoming a patron of the show. Just head to TheTurnOnPodcast.com to make that happen. Kenrya: Thanks for listening and we'll see you soon. Holla. |
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be. Archives
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