The Turn On

Season 4 | Episode 10 | Never Keeping Secrets

9/8/2021

Book, "Vicissitudes" by Kim Green | Bookshop | Amazon
Author, Kim Green | Website | Instagram | Twitter
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Kenrya: Before we get started, we're here to do some begging.

Kenrya: So before we get started, we're here to do some begging.

Erica: We are here to beg like 1980s and 1990 R&B stars like who? Keith Sweat.

Kenrya: Keith Sweat, yeah. Remember when we saw him in concert?

Erica: It was like the apex of niggas in linen pants, those little A tank tops, and Stacy Adams.

Kenrya: It's true, but it was a damn good show. We were in our 20s when we went to that show.

Erica: Yeah.

Kenrya: We were very young.

Erica: Now I wouldn't be mad at a fine gentleman in some nice linen pants.

Kenrya: Me too. And I can still appreciate the begging of Keith Sweat.

Erica: Can we? Like he says, he begs to your woman so you don't have to.

Kenrya: Exactly, but today we actually do have to beg.

Erica: We doing our own begging, right?

Kenrya: Yeah. And you don't have to break out your linen, but what we do want is for y’all to tell us what you think about the show.

Erica: Yeah, so it sounds like work, I promise it does, but it's painless. All you're going to do is head to TheTurnOnPodcast.com/Survey and answer a few questions. It will help us give you more of what you love.

Kenrya: Yes, help us, help you.

Erica: Yeah. On the survey, is one of the questions, “Do you guys enjoy Erica singing?”

Kenrya: That is not one of the questions on the survey.

Erica: I feel like it should be.

Kenrya: You think it should be?

Erica: I feel like it should be, but whatever.

Kenrya: Just yo, if you all give us a few minutes of your time, you can help us give you more of the show that you love. And all you got to do is head to TheTurnOnPodcast.com/Survey. Yes, please, and thank you.

Erica: Okay, so let's start the show.

Kenrya: All right.

Kenrya: So back in my hoe days, I used to fuck this nigga who liked to fuck with his socks on. I used to always be like, "Why you ain't take off your socks?" And he'd be like, "Because I need some traction." And I was like, "Oh, okay."

Erica: He was wearing the hospital joints?

Kenrya: He was just wearing regular ass socks. Honestly I feel like-

Erica: Slide around crew socks.

Kenrya: ... his feet might've been a little fucked up, too, like he was embarrassed about his feet, but also he said it gave him some leverage and...

Erica: Okay.

Kenrya: Did better when he wore socks, right?

Erica: I mean, yeah. I guess.

Kenrya: Yeah. If he had some Clap Cleats-

Erica: Clap Cleats! I love the name. Clap cleats.

Kenrya: It is a really good name.

Erica: The socks for your feet while you beat them cheeks under the sheets.

Kenrya: That's not they tagline, but I kind of love it. So Clap Cleats-

Erica: I kind of love it.

Kenrya: I kind of do. They're made of a high-performance bamboo material, which makes them cooler than cotton. And they wick away sweat, because you know, if you really doing what you're supposed to be doing, you sweating everywhere.

Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kenrya: This keeps you from being all sweaty in the feet, but they also have grips on the soles.

Erica: Little grippers on the bottom?

Kenrya: Yes, like hospitals socks but better, because hospital socks don't really do the job.

Erica: And you throw your feet up on the wall and not have to worry about... You know, throw it back on the wall and not have to worry about sliding down. You become a gecko.

Kenrya: Yes. See, everybody can wear these no matter what position you're going to be in!

Erica: Exactly.

Kenrya: Exactly. So you figure they got socks for everything. There's socks if you play certain sports. I'm sure there's socks for hiking for people who do shit like that.

Erica: Fucking's a sport.

Kenrya: Fucking is a sport, so why not make sure that you got your shit together with Clap Cleats? I'm just saying.

Erica: Claplete. Fucking claplete. So in order to become a claplete, claplete, claplete... Yes. In order to become a claplete, go to ClapCleats.com, use the promotion code "TheTurnOn," all one word. Happy fucking.

Kenrya: Yes.

Erica: Clap Cleats. The socks for your feet while you beat them cheeks in the sheets.

Kenrya: Oh my God. That's ClapCleats.com/discount/TheTurnOn, and then put in the code "TheTurnOn" all together for 10% off.

Erica: Yay.

Kenrya: Yay, now let's get started.

Kenrya: Come here. Get off.

[theme music]

Erica: Hey. (singing) Hey, y'all. Welcome to this week's episode of The Turn On. I don't know why I was trying to close it out. Anyway.

Kenrya: We literally just started. Did you try making that song up on the spot?

Erica: Of course, bitch. Damn. Did you know that songwriters are hitting me up like for their records?

Kenrya: I did not, but...

Erica: Anyway, this week we're reading the lovely “Vicissitudes,” written by Kim Green in 2021, well, published in 2021. Sit back, relax, get your wine, get your weed, get your whatever you need, and enjoy. (singing)

Kenrya: “Vicissitudes,” by Kim Green.

Kenrya: Reaching for my glass, he steps away, pulling his t-shirt over his head. As he does this, my body feels a wave of nerves and excitement. His well-defined chest comes toward me. I reach out to caress the dark bushy hair. The embers of my body heat, allowing him to unbutton my shirt. His hands are warm and sensitive, speaking in tongues that my body has never heard. My breaths are long and deep as he then unbuckles his belt.

Kenrya: When he reaches for my zipper, I back away, moving toward the couch, knowing that he will follow. His hands are energetic and frisky, his kisses slow and syrupy. My jeans open and he slides his hand around my waist, gently bringing my jeans down. With my hips' movement, I shimmy them down to my ankles. I kick them off and they land in a heap at my feet. Jahn comes closer. With his hands, he holds, almost controls my waist, gently pushing me onto my stomach to shield my eyes from seeing him.

Kenrya: I resist, also not wanting to reveal the evidence of my unbearable disease, marked by years of endless scratching, only thought complete at the first sign of blood. My scarred back is my greatest shame. Naively, I thought I had my body to myself. Cold doctor's hands are all my back has come to expect. I never imagined that someday there'd be a need to apologize for this which has left me undesirable. I'm on the verge of tears as Jahn moves forward.

Kenrya: Firmly on my back, he feels my resistance. He loosens his grip, taking another tack, gently kissing my stomach from the waist up. Each of his kisses feels like an angel has landed, and when he finally reaches my tight lips, he stops.

Kenrya: “Babe, what's wrong?” I admit, “My body's not ready for this.” “But are you ready? Because that's all I want, your heart and your mind to be ready. The body will follow. I don't really care how your body looks. I only care about what's inside.” “I could say the same to you,” I say. “Say it then. I need to hear it.” I shake and he holds me steady. “So much is going through my head, Jahn.”

Kenrya: He says, “Let it all go. Do you know how many of my brothers didn't make it this far to hold someone in their arms that they care about? Too many of us put ourselves in danger, drinking and doing drugs to ease the pain. For them, dying is easier than living without love. I've wasted too much of my life trying for perfection, causing myself unnecessary pain.”

Kenrya: His eyes look down on me. I see him from another angle. His hands are alive with emotion. They move and point and direct the earth, always holding on to possibility. His hands make me love him more.

Kenrya: “We can't be ashamed,” he says and stands up. He unzips his jeans. His expression has become unfamiliar and newly erotic. I take a deep breath, seeing his open fly. His black boxer shorts and six pack abs make me feel like a teenager, causing juices to flow that I can't contain. I want to feel his rough skin against mine.

Kenrya: He stands back to display himself and says, “You do the rest, Morgan. Don't be scared of me. This is who I am, for now,” he whispers.

Kenrya: I leave my t-shirt on the bed where he left it in a heap. With only a half-cocked bra on, my long locs are the only thing covering my exposed ample breasts. I take three steps toward him. My hands go directly to the wide waistband of his boxers. I slip a single finger inside and let it linger. I feel heat coming from him. Pulling the waistband toward me, I peak inside. There is a hairless flat abyss that's much like mine.

Kenrya: A lone tear rolls down his face. His body tightens, bracing for rejection. Veins are popping in his neck. When he steps out of his boxers, I'm still there. I'm neither repulsed nor afraid. Instead I stand in awe of the beautiful contrast, the amazing strength of his top and the vulnerability of what's below. I appreciate the softness of his floral folds, seeing small slivers of pink bursting from his seams. I'm curious to unfold the possibilities of his strange, yet familiar flower. It is simply him, the way that he is, much the way that I'm me.

Kenrya: Both of our bodies have been medicalized, sent through a system of torture and taint. We're both changed, neither one of us still in the bodies to which we were born. Struggling to make peace with what is, we're safer together.

Kenrya: Jahn and I spend the rest of our precious night merging hands, kisses, and caresses. We spend countless hours exploring each other's bodies, exposing ourselves inside and out. When sleep finally comes over him, I lay awake in the darkness, my head resting on his flat, virile chest. My hand lightly brushes over the barely noticeable indentations left by chest reconstruction. He is what he says he is.

Kenrya: Berd rustles in his tank, finally emerging from his shell. I shift again in our spoon. One of my hands protects Jahn's flatness above, and the other cradles his delicate, swollen clitoris below. He is whole. There is nothing missing.

[theme music]

Erica: (singing) Now we're back. You all saw how we faded out so expertly and then we faded back in so expertly.

Kenrya: That's vision.

Erica: Just saying.

Kenrya: Vision.

Erica: I need an Oscar, no, a Grammy, for my-

Kenrya: Performance.

Erica: ... audios, perform. Anyway. Kenrya, thank you for that lovely reading. Let's get into the book. Actually, first, do you want to talk about our concerns about the book? All right.

Kenrya: Yeah. This is a book that came to us on a recommendation. We have been, for quite some time, folks who've followed us for a long time know that we've posted on social media looking for books written by trans writers, because it's important to us to tell all of our stories. Not having a lot of luck. We'll actually, in next week's episode, talk a lot about why we were having trouble finding folks. For this week's episode, the challenge that we had with this book is that while it centers a cis woman and a trans man, we were worried that the book wasn't written by a trans person. We wanted to make sure that the representation is accurate. While we know that there is no one trans experience, any more so than there is one cis experience, we wanted to make sure that it was sensitive and that it was accurate to someone's truth.

Erica: [crosstalk 00:11:50].

Kenrya: Exactly. We reached out to the publisher, who is a Black trans man, to talk about the book and why he decided to publish it and how accurate and authentic it felt. He was like, "Yo, this is the real deal. It feels good. This is not offensive to me and my community." That was what allowed us to feel comfortable bringing this book on the show and talking about it. You'll meet the publisher next week.

Erica: I just thought it was important to share that, because I want you all to recognize that we're trying, we're open, we want more. We want more! We want more!

Kenrya: Please send us recs.

Erica: Yeah. Please please please. With that said, a quick synopsis of the story, this woman meets this man at a wedding of their mutual friends.

Kenrya: Their mutual best friends, which is pretty cool. Right?

Erica: Sort of, kind of.

Kenrya: Get into it.

Erica: Meets him at a wedding. They meet at a mutual wedding. They like each other. There's some sparks. Then later on there's a reason. We going to talk about this. One of the women in the couple that got married's mother passed away, and so then they all rekindle, recombine just a few weeks later for this stuff around the funeral. They meet, they act upon those feelings, and hijinks ensue, dot dot dot.

Kenrya: Dot dot dot.

Erica: Was that a good-

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: ... general synopsis?

Kenrya: What happened, yeah.

Erica: Let's dive in. First, we going to tackle the easy shit. Oh, the character's are Morgan, Jahn, Bethany, Rene, and Rain. Morgan is Rene's best friend. Jahn is Bethany's best friend. Bethany and Rene are married. Morgan and Jahn are the two-

Kenrya: Yes, our protagonists.

Erica: Rain is Morgan's daughter. That's all you need to know.

Kenrya: One more thing. Everybody lives in L.A. except Morgan and Rain. They live in Atlanta.

Erica: Atlanta. ATL shawty! That's who be contacting me about my songwriting abilities, Atlanta writers.

Kenrya: I thought you was going to say the whole city of Atlanta.

Erica: The whole city, duh. Somebody called me, was like, "Girl, I was at Quik Trip. They was talking about your songwriting abilities. Help me out." I was like, "Okay," because the city got me like that. I'm wanted. My son talks to me about these delusions. I be like, "What the fuck?"

Kenrya: His “built different” delusions or he's talking about your delusions?

Erica: His own delusions. I be looking at him like, "What the fuck?" Now I see that, hey.

Kenrya: Apple and tree.

Erica: The apple didn't fall far from the tree. First, Jahn is a schoolteacher, a-

Kenrya: Coach.

Erica: ... coach at a school.

Kenrya: At a high school.

Erica: His work situation is that bullshit.

Kenrya: It's harmful.

Erica: To lightly put it, it's that bullshit. His coworkers don't know that he's trans. The first instance in which we're introduced to his coworkers is his boss like, "These motherfuckers making us build a gender-neutral bathroom. That's some bullshit. It's stupid. These people don't need ... " It was just so toxic. You can tell how Jahn is, Jahn with an A, is-

Kenrya: Viscerally reacting.

Erica: ... trying to contain his reaction, while at the same time, having a really real fucking reaction, which is crazy.

Kenrya: I don't think it would've even been ... You mentioned that they don't even know that he's trans, which is none of their fucking business, but I don't even think that it would've been different if he did know. He didn't give a fuck. That dude was-

Erica: He didn't.

Kenrya: ... ignorant as hell.

Erica: He did not. Which also reminds you, watch your motherfucking mouth. You don't know who the fuck is around. Chill, especially if it ain't got shit to do with you. Generally the whole school situation was fucked up, because not only is his boss homophobic, transphobic.

Kenrya: Racist.

Erica: He's racist as fuck. The teachers hate the kids that they worked with. If you flat out asked them, "Do you hate the kids?" they might not say it, but it's very clear in the way that they talk about the children.

Kenrya: They call them animals, literally.

Erica: Literally call them animals, talked about how a bunch of them pregnant, so they ain't gender-neutral. It was just fucking horrible. As a parent whose kids are in schools, it also reminds you, watch who the fuck teaching your kids.

Kenrya: The fact that you never really know. They may be better than these folks are at walking the walk and talking the talk in front of your kids, but it doesn't mean that they're not in subtle ways showing them that they think that they're less than.

Erica: Because I got too many friends that are teachers that be teaching a D.A.R.E. drug program, and I get high with them on the weekends. Marijuana, of course. I can think of a couple. I done had some nasty teachers do some nasty things to my booty hole.

Kenrya: Which has nothing to do with their ability to teach your children well or not be racist or homophobic or transphobic.

Erica: Not at all. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just trying to show that-

Kenrya: You never know what they doing outside of class.

Erica: Yeah. Teachers have lives outside of school. I remember my first time I saw my 2nd grade teacher in the-

Kenrya: Grocery store?

Erica: ... fucking grocery store, and I was like, "Bitch!" I legit thought when we left school this bitch would just go into the art supply cabinet and sleep and wait for us to come back. I was just like, "Bitch. Who let you out of the school? How is you out of school? How did they let you out of school?" Which again is hilarious, because-

Kenrya: Kids are dumb.

Erica: I remember I dated this guy, and for a very quick period he was a kindergarten teacher. This was before we were dating, but he was a kindergarten teacher. Then we used to watch that movie “Half Baked.”

Kenrya: I love that movie.

Erica: One of them dude’s a kindergarten teacher.

Kenrya: He's a good kindergarten teacher.

Erica: He was amazing. He's amazing. It swings both ways.

Kenrya: That's right.

Erica: Good and bad, your teachers having outside lives and outside ideas, which also reminds me of when my kid is going through things with teachers. I remember my kid had a teacher that I'm convinced just flat out did not like him. Just did not like him. It was kindergarten or some shit like that. I think it was his kindergarten teacher. I'm convinced she just did not like him. Thankfully, I don't think my son saw it, because he thinks really positively about kindergarten, that kind of thing. I'm happy she was able to mask it for him. I could see little things like, this bitch ain't cool on my baby, which as he continues through school, he has issues. He had an issue with a teacher this past year. I don't know if he didn't like him, if he was just too callous. We were still in a virtual learning situation. I had to tell him, "Look, sometimes people ain't going to like you. This is how we handle these situations, so that you still assert yourself, so that you're still being respected, but-"

Kenrya: “Everybody ain't going to like you.”

Erica: "You ain't for everybody."

Kenrya: Listen. That's a thing I know. I'm definitely not for everybody. I told somebody I was dating that once.

Erica: Me too.

Kenrya: He looked so offended. I was like, "Nigga, it's true. You not for everybody. You barely for me."

Erica: It scares me if you're palatable for everybody. You know what everybody like?

Kenrya: Like Aaron Burr.

Erica: Fucking ...

Kenrya: In “Hamilton.”

Erica: “Aaron Burr, sir?”

Kenrya: Yeah. First of all, I'm off “Hamilton” and all of that whole thing, but if you fall for nothing, what do you stand for? He has no opinion, because he goes along to get along, because he doesn't want anyone to disagree with him. He just wants everyone to think that he is on their side. He has no principles. He has no standing. He don't stand for shit.

Erica: Aaron Burr, sir. I'm like, "Aaron Burr? Aaron Burr, sir?" I'm thinking of Bill Burr. When you said Aaron Burr, I was like, "Bill Burr," because a lot of people don't like him.

Kenrya: Which I like him. I don't give a fuck.

Erica: I know. Angry white women don't like him. The only thing that everyone likes is fucking ecru, the color ecru.

Kenrya: What's the color? Is it white?

Erica: It's that not white, almost white.

Kenrya: I don't like that.

Erica: That too. I'm just saying, there's no interest, there's no texture, there's no joy in that. I was with a friend's group of friends recently. I was the other person-

Kenrya: I don't like being that person.

Erica: ... in the friend group. I don't care, because again, I'm like, "Fuck it. I'm going to be me. You going to enjoy it." She was like, "My friends really like you!" I was like, "That's nice."

Kenrya: "Don't care."

Erica: I was like, "I'm glad it didn't make your weekend uncomfortable, because you care about your friends."

Kenrya: It's interesting. Wait. Both of us don't care. I love this about you. You're like, "I'm here. I don't give a fuck if you like me or not. I'm here." I'm just like, "I don't care. I'm not coming."

Erica: I'm like, "I'm going to show up and enjoy myself anyway." You're like, "I'm not going to show up and enjoy myself at home anyway."

Kenrya: It's fun over here.

Erica: Like, "It's fine. We ain't got to go nowhere. It's totally fine." That's a good way to look at it. I'm the yin to your yang, the sweet potatoes to your greens.

Kenrya: Now I want sweet potatoes and greens.

Erica: Bitch, I had some greens from this little soul food spot around the corner, the fried seafood place. Know what I'm talking about?

Kenrya: I know what you're talking about.

Erica: Girl, it was so good. I had them yesterday, put them in the microwave. You know Black people use the microwave as a storage container. I put it in the microwave instead of putting it in the fridge, forgot about them, woke up, saw them greens in there, was like, "You know what? Fuck it. I'm going to take my chances."

Kenrya: It's so funny, because I grew up without a microwave, because my dad is very like, "You put it in the oven." He still is, by the way. He gave me a speech about it the other day when I told him I was about to warm something up. My partner is very much quintessential nigga who stores stuff in the microwave. He does it over here all the time, and I be forgetting that he put stuff in the microwave.

Erica: Like, "Oh shit, what is that?"

Kenrya: Because I didn't grow up with one, so it's not a natural inclination for me to leave things in there. If he gets food and I'm in the middle of an interview or something and then they eat out here eating, my food goes in the microwave, and I come out like, "Where my shit at?" It's in the Black people storage container.

Erica: Like, "Microwave, bitch." I burned down my kitchen as a kid.

Kenrya: I didn't know that.

Erica: Yeah. I burned down my kitchen as a kid, because in addition to the microwave being a storage container-

Kenrya: The oven.

Erica: The oven was a storage container. I remember my mom, the night before we did chicken or something. It was in one of those pans. My mom poured water in it to let it soak. Then she was like, "I'll clean it the next day," or something. She put it in the oven. I go, about to make something. I don't know what the fuck I was doing. Turned on the oven to preheat, and the shit burst into flames.

Kenrya: Holy shit.

Erica: I burned down the kitchen.

Kenrya: I'm sorry.

Erica: Now that I'm thinking about it, that was a little traumatic. I burned down the kitchen, so now I don't store shit in my oven. When I'm other people's houses, I look six times, like, "Let me preheat. Let me preheat. Let me preheat. Let me preheat."

Kenrya: Listen.

Erica: Because you used to keep shit in your oven, and especially when you lived in New York.

Kenrya: Because I had no space.

Erica: Because you had no storage.

Kenrya: Then I got out of that habit, because I have space for it. My partner still keeps stuff in the oven. Last night we made your auntie's snickerdoodles.

Erica: Snickerdoodles. Y'all and these fucking snickerdoodles.

Kenrya: You can have some if you want some.

Erica: I don't even eat snickerdoodles, but I'll let brother and kid know, because they love snickerdoodles.

Kenrya: I made 24 snickerdoodles. My kid preheated the oven. I'm looking around for the pan so I could fucking put some parchment paper on it. I was like, "Oh, right, he cleaned the kitchen. That shit's in the oven."

Erica: At least the pan was preheated.

Kenrya: Listen, and my kitchen was cleaned by somebody that wasn't me.

Erica: It made it crispy, right?

Kenrya: No, I actually took it out, because those are a really butter-based dough, and so you don't want it too warm before you put it in. Once you make that dough, you put it in the refrigerator first, so you can make the balls. Sorry, I get off on my baking shit.

Erica: When I make my cornbread in the skillet, you put the skillet in the oven.

Kenrya: First.

Erica: To heat and then you pour the cornbread in and the cornbread get good and crackly and crispy on the outside.

Kenrya: I actually ran cold water over it to bring it to room temperature, because you don't want those cookies to start cooking before they go in, because they only go in for nine minutes.

Erica: I didn't even know snickerdoodles were a thing until I moved out here and they have snickerdoodles at Iverson Mall. Have you ever had snickerdoodles from Iverson Mall?

Kenrya: No.

Erica: Word on the street, they're really good. Iverson Mall is the hood mall.

Kenrya: I used to go get my hair braided-

Erica: To this day.

Kenrya: ... or take my kid to get her hair braided over there.

Erica: Exactly. There's a snickerdoodle place. Niggas go there for snickerdoodles.

Kenrya: Really? I didn't grow up eating those either.

Erica: I didn't either, and then I came home and these niggas were eating snickerdoodles. I'm like, "Who the fuck are y’all?"

Kenrya: I think the first time I had those was at one of our linesister’s house, when we were doing pre-Christmas or some kind of holiday. She made them and I was like, "These shits are good." They turned into our Santa cookie. Now we just make them because we want them.

Erica: Back to the lecture at hand. They're at the school, teachers, yada yada yada. Also, something interesting. This is what's fucked up about schools. There's this whole scarcity thing. Even teachers that wouldn't have much to say about a gender-neutral bathroom have shit to say, because they're like, "Yo, shit's falling apart, and now we got this gender-neutral bathroom." That fucking sucks. Nigga, y’all needed a gender-neutral bathroom, because also a lot of times it's bigger than a fucking gender-neutral bathroom. Maybe you just don't want to shit in the whole open spot. Come on! I will-

Kenrya: You know I'll shit anywhere. Even if it is just for folks who are not on the binary, they deserve to be able to use the fucking bathroom in a safe space.

Erica: Yeah, because Jahn also noted the reason that he was living in the apartment he was living in is because it was so close to the school, so when he had to use the bathroom-

Kenrya: He would go home.

Erica: ... he could run home to do it. Just the things you have to think about, it's crazy frustrating. Not crazy, but it's frustrating. It's fucking sad that people have to think about those things in order to-

Kenrya: Live.

Erica: Yeah, in order to live a safe life.

Kenrya: That there are all these seemingly small but really quite large violences that lurk every day. That whole sequence of talking to his boss and then having the announcement with all of his coworkers the next day, every bit of that was fucking violent.

Erica: We were going to touch on this a little bit later, but we going to just go.

Kenrya: Roll with it.

Erica: Jahn is a very difficult character. Some of this, I'm like, "Goddamn, bruh. You getting on my fucking nerves."

Kenrya: I didn't always like him.

Erica: Also you're living a life where you got to-

Kenrya: Shit's hard.

Erica: Just something as simple as fucking using the bathroom is a thing. You got to give him a little leeway, because it's like, "All right, bruh, I know you going through it."

Kenrya: That's when we have to call on our empathy and our grace, like, "All right. You're being a little bit of an asshole, but also people are assholes to you all the time, and with dangerous consequences. I get it."

Erica: I think that has definitely come with age, because I have a girlfriend, and she is a little younger. She listens to the show. You know who you are.

Kenrya: Hey.

Erica: I'm talking about you. She's a little younger. Like us, she grew up in a very difficult home. Things were difficult. She's doing very well for herself. She's doing well. She defied the odds. We were having a conversation the other day, because she was like, "It's hard for me to feel bad for people." She was like, "If I did it, you can too." I was very proud of her. She had a situation where she had to hold her boundaries with someone that it would've been very difficult. I was like, "Look, dog, I'm proud of you, because not everybody can do it," yada yada yada. Then she went on like, "No, because I don't feel bad for people. You got to help yourself." I was like, "Wait."

Kenrya: Let's not be boostrappy.

Erica: "Wait wait wait. I ain't say all that. I ain't say all that." I told her, I was like, "I see how it's easy for you to have that understanding, because you did it on your own," I said, "But there are probably a lot of blessings or luck or whatever that just so happen to you that you maybe don't recognize, but if somebody going to look back and be like, 'Girl, it could've been.'" I was like her when I was younger too. I think it takes some living. It takes a lot of living. A lot of living to recognize that no matter how bootstrappy you were in order to make it, not everybody are. Let's not be mad at niggas that don't.

Kenrya: Who are we?

Erica: Huh?

Kenrya: I said who are we?

Erica: Sometimes, nigga, it would be much easier if I was just ignorant in bliss. I would be, "Yep. Okay. That's cool."

Kenrya: I have those moments sometimes. It was somebody on Twitter. I was like, "Damn, I wish I could be ignorant. You all look like you all having fun."

Erica: So fucking dumb.

Kenrya: Alas, it's just not me. It's not anymore. I can't say that it wasn't, but it is not at this point in my life. I think the flip side of that though, as we say, yes, Jahn's an asshole in some cases, in some ways, in some times. We can have the empathy to understand the trauma that informs that. We also have the right to decide that we don't want to deal with that shit. Autonomy comes into play. You can have empathy for someone and the shit that they went through that leads them to be the way that they are and also choose not to spend any time with them or engage with them or have that shit spewed onto you.

Erica: I think that it's important, because Jahn is dealing with a lot. Dealing with a lot. Dealing with a lot. I always says don't get so caught up in your shit that you're shitty to other people. I probably don't say it like that, but that really sounded really profound-

Kenrya: I thought that was a great way to say it.

Erica: ... the way I said it. Don't be shitty to other people just because you caught up in your shit. Dog. There's so much shit that I done struggled with. That don't give me a reason to be an asshole to other people or be a jerk. Even on my worst day when I'm feeling bad. Nigga, it don't hurt to add a please to the, "Kiss my ass."

Kenrya: If you can't do that, then go over there and shut the fuck up. That's what I do. I just be quiet.

Erica: Somebody said, it was Tabitha Brown, she was like, "Just because your day ain't good don't make other people's day not good," or something like that. It makes complete sense. Just because you caught up in your shit, which can be completely unwarranted, don't mean that you got to be an asshole to other people. I feel like our dear friend Jahn was like that.

Kenrya: There were some times.

Erica: As he was struggling through his shit. He had to disclose to Morgan that ... How did he put it? He was like, "I got to tell you something." He was like, "Is it another woman?" He was like, "Yeah." She was like, "Is it Bethany?" He was like, "Nah. It's who I used to be," or, "Who I was born as," or something. I was like-

Kenrya: That's a way to do it.

Erica: ... "Okay." That is certainly a way to do it. I think that Jahn was so caught up in disclosing, managing his shit, just all the mental shit around being trans in this world and wanting Morgan to stick around and give their relationship a chance. He was so caught up in that, in my mind, he failed to help assure Morgan as she was going through ...

Kenrya: He forgot that she had to process even as he processed.

Erica: Exactly.

Kenrya: I got that too.

Erica: Great Value, Wegmans.

Kenrya: I got that too, because it was interesting, because he was clearly agitated and worried when he showed up to pick her up for their date to disclose. Again, even before that, he blew the horn instead of coming to the door. I was like, "Nigga, what is you doing? You know everybody in that house. Don't handle this this way. Y’all are not teenagers. You are not whatever."

Erica: I am 40 years old, and a man pulled up to my house and I went outside, and my brother was like, "Who this nigga think he is?" I was like, "Oh."

Kenrya: Exactly. I was just like, "Don't blow your horn for her." Then when she got outside and he was like, "I'm going to take you somewhere," and was just very stern and, "We need to talk." She's like, "What do we need to talk ... " He was very single-minded and focused.

Erica: "Let me take you to the fucking woods."

Kenrya: Then she was like, "This the first time I ever felt a little afraid with him." I got Morgan in that space, because I can't say that I would've gotten in the car if a nigga just pulled up like that.

Erica: Like, "Nah, dog, your energy off. I'll Uber and meet you there, at the place that we said we were going to meet, not some random fucking park."

Kenrya: Yeah, or I might not have gone at all, quite honestly. The way that he started the whole situation off I'm sure put her on guard to begin with. Then there was the having trouble getting outside of himself to understand that he's not the only one who is processing was tough.

Erica: When Jahn disclosed, Morgan had questions like, "What did your name used to be?" Jahn was like, "That's a dead name!" I understand Jahn, only because I feel like I am in that space, where I have read up about trans people and trans experiences, and so I know not to go and ask somebody, "What's your dead name?"

Kenrya: I'm about to say, I cringed.

Erica: "Show me a picture of you before you transitioned."

Kenrya: I was like, "Oh."

Erica: If someone hasn't been exposed to this or understand this, then let's maybe give them a little grace, especially if it's not on some, y’all out at the mall and it's like, "Jahn, what'd your mom call you as a baby?" Again, I think it's just like, "Jahn, come on, dog, have a little grace with Morgan." One thing that I liked about this book was that I think that often when people learn about people transitioning, they have all these questions about how does this work, how does that work, what do the surgeries look like, what does hormones look like, all of that. Not that I've been through it, but I feel like this story told that and explained it in a way that didn't make it seem like circus act, in a, "Oh, we're going to-"

Kenrya: It wasn't voyeuristic.

Erica: That's the word.

Kenrya: It was just showing-

Erica: Great Value, Wegmans.

Kenrya: Because the way that Kim chose to shift perspectives back and forth allowed us to just see how Jahn lives his life. Another thing that I like and I think we've been alluding to this, is that the characters feel very real and human. Sometimes they get things right. Sometimes they don't. That's okay. It's not as if Jahn is up on some pedestal of knowing how to do shit. Even with disclosing to Morgan, he talks about how when he's disclosed before, he was beaten. Makes sense to me that he would be on edge and maybe have trouble being able to have grace, because no one has had grace for him in that situation before. We see that Morgan doesn't do a great job in hearing even as she's processing. The questions that she asked, like I said, made me cringe with my whole body, like, "Oh no no no." It felt real. It felt maybe not the way that I would react, but absolutely the way that someone would react. It wasn't preachy. It wasn't trying to hold up a shining example of how this to happen. It was an example of how it could happen.

Erica: Yeah, because the book, it's not a how-to manual. [crosstalk 00:42:40].

Kenrya: It's just a story.

Erica: It's a story. It is a story. That is why we like it. There are multiple sex scenes. One of the first times that they have sex ... Morgan has lupus, and it's touched on a little bit in this story. It's a part of who she is. It's not the whole of who she is, but it's definitely a part. One of the things that stood out to me was the scene where they were having sex and you could tell Morgan was really trying to be okay with being undressed and intimate in front of this person with this body that has been hacked up. Girl, when I was reading that, I was damn near in tears, because I was just like, "Oh my God." As I go through this whole breast cancer thing, I'm good and free and all of that. I say now to so many people that chemo ... Wow, I'm feeling things. I actually hate radiation more than chemo, because chemo, I went through my things, hair fell out, it's back. As I deal with radiation, which is ... I did three weeks of radiation. It ended almost a year ago. I am-

Kenrya: Man.

Erica: ... literally going in for my second surgery to just deal with the effects that it has had on my body. The biggest effect is, one of the things, my skin is darker on this side, but also I have a rock titty. My right side, my titty is a fucking rock. I think about the first time that I had sex, the first time having, or just having sex, it took a lot for me to get outside of my body and just enjoy it, because the entire time ... I got nice titties, even in spite of all that has happened. They look good. They're fun bags. Everybody want to play with a fun bag. I don't know if he does it or if in my mind he's doing it, but I felt like he'll go for the boobs and then be like, "We're going to focus on this one and not the rock one," which I get. I can't feel shit either. You might as well enjoy it, because I'm just like ...

Erica: Bitch, before my surgery, I was sending everybody nudes. Girl, I went to get my nails done today and was showing the nail ladies my titties. I am very open with my body. It's very difficult getting in a sexual, erotic place, when you feel like you're carrying this physical deformity. I guess I could call it deformity. It feels like it's just this crazy, wild thing to my body. When they were having sex and Kim was writing about it, it rang through like a motherfucker to me. Didn't mean to make that sad.

Kenrya: Nah, it's your truth.

Erica: Don't cry.

Kenrya: I'm not crying.

Erica: Are you crying?

Kenrya: No.

Erica: I'm like, "Girl."

Kenrya: No.

Erica: Rock titty. Family. Dog. Rene, I don't even know what to [crosstalk 00:46:56].

Kenrya: Rene's also an asshole.

Erica: She's a jerk. She's a fucking jerk. I feel like what she did was like ...

Kenrya: That's not even the thing that made me feel like she was a jerk. I felt like she was a jerk because when they went out to eat she was not nice to the wait staff. That was my problem.

Erica: I was like, "Girl."

Kenrya: What she did with her mama, I don't care.

Erica: Yeah, because it was like, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. She had a very complicated relationship with her mother. Maybe I missed this, but was her mom donating to the Human Rights Campaign her idea or her mom's idea?

Kenrya: It was whoever wrote her, handled her affairs, because Rene didn't. That's why she didn't believe it. She was like, "Fuck her. She doesn't accept me. This is all her trying to save face and look like somebody who she isn't," basically.

Erica: I thought it was like Rene did it as a-

Kenrya: Like a fuck you. No, no.

Erica: The other thing was it was good enough as a fuck you.

Kenrya: For those who haven't read it yet, and hopefully will, Rene and her mom do not have a good relationship, because her mother cannot accept that she was a lesbian, and so basically disconnected her from her entire family. She doesn't even have a relationship with her two siblings, because of her mom. When she dies, it brings up all of this stuff about their relationship. A bunch of stuff happens. At the funeral, when everyone reads the obituary, she sees that it actually mentions her, which I don't even know that she expected it to mention her as her child. Then it mentions her wife, that she's married to Bethany, which was like, "Whoa."

Erica: Which is always a big thing in Black communities.

Kenrya: Whether or not you mention the person, and who you mention.

Erica: Yeah. I remember my uncle passed. I remember my uncle passed. He was dating this guy. My family couldn't stand him. They could not stand this man. We all, even my grandmother, we all respected that this is who he chose to be with.

Kenrya: Even if you all ain't like his ass.

Erica: What'd you say?

Kenrya: Even if you all ain't like his ass.

Erica: Yeah. While he was in hospice, we was there, and we wanted to make sure that his partner was there. It was just one of those things like, "I can't stand you. When this funeral is over, we going to throw you an ass beating, but right now we recognize that-"

Kenrya: It's not about y’all.

Erica: It ain't about us. It's about him having the person that he loves next to him. When he passed away ... I've become the funeral program writer of the family. Me. Actually, I think they make me do it, it's because they know I have you.

Kenrya: I was about to say, you always send them to me to review.

Erica: I don't know why.

Kenrya: It's a sad service that I provide. I have edited so many obituaries for people in our circle. I'm like, "Listen, what can I do?" If that's the thing I can do, I got you.

Erica: Now that I think about it, they're like, "Erica will do it." Then my aunt's in the back like, "Actually it's Kenrya, but we'll let Erica feel good about it." My grandmama's like, "How we going to mention his special friend?"

Kenrya: Okay, granny.

Erica: It's always, "How we mention his special friend?" Whoever did that part had half a mind.

Kenrya: Then the other thing was that it said that she in lieu of flowers, send donations to the Human Rights Campaign. Rene didn't believe that any of that was actually meant from her mom, that any of it was accurate, that any of it reflected how she felt about her and her life.

Erica: Another complicated ass relationship. You said Rene was a jerk to the wait staff. As I was reading, I was trying to determine, was she just a normal jerk or was she a jerk because she was dealing with all that she had been dealing with.

Kenrya: It felt to me like she's always a jerk, because Morgan was like, "She always got a name to drop." When she got to the restaurant and they asked if she had a reservation, she's like, "No reservation. I'm such and such's friend." Then she said her name and then she said, "Is such-and-such here?" Then that prompted them to show her to a table or whatever. It felt to me like she's bougie as hell.

Erica: Very Hollywood.

Kenrya: Very much expects things to go ... Not that attorneys are assholes, although some of them are, and they're good people to have on your side. It felt like that's how she moved through the world to me. I didn't like that about her.

Erica: Also, speaking of attorneys.

Kenrya: I thought she was a good representation of an actual best friend who acts like a best friend.

Erica: Just real quick, shout-out to our attorney, because I spoke to her recently. First, I got all this new stuff going on. I just wanted to have a check-in, "This is what's going on in my life. Let's figure out where you need to be inserted," conversation. I call her. I'm like, "Hey." We had our time scheduled. Like, "Hey, how you doing?" I'm like, "I'm great." She's like, "Do we need to dial in Kenrya?" I was like, "No, this is just for me." She's like, "Okay." Then I explain to her everything that's going on. First, our attorney, she's one of those-

Kenrya: She's the homie.

Erica: ... Mercury's in retrograde, summer solstice, our energies are weird, let's make sure we have a moment to-

Kenrya: Ground ourselves.

Erica: ... center ourselves before we get ... All of that, which is so not attorney-like, I would think. She does it. It works well. Every time I talk to her it's a confirmation why I trust Black women. I tell her what's going on. She's like, "Erica, I am in tears. I am literally over here in tears." She's like, "At first I thought we were going to deal with a criminal matter." I was like, "I think you know me." I found it hilarious. I was like, "She knows me." She's like, "I'm in tears. You're doing what you want to do. This is just amazing." I was just like, "Yo, I fucking love our attorney." Then on top of that, we're talking, talking, talking, she's like, "Okay, just remind people as you move forward you got an attorney that don't have any problem busting heads." I was like, "See? That's why I fucks with you."

Kenrya: It's true.

Erica: She is. She ain't no hoe. I fucking love it.

Kenrya: Somebody you got in your corner.

Erica: She's definitely not like Rene in a sense of being a jerk. She's Hollywood, but she ain't a jerk. It's dope. Shout-out to our attorney.

Kenrya: Hey, girl.

Erica: It's clear Rene had a very complicated relationship with her mom, but Morgan's mom died when Morgan was young. Going to that funeral sent Morgan into a space.

Kenrya: It was triggering for her.

Erica: It was. It was. It reminded me of, my mom passed away, and then was it later that year or maybe the next year?

Kenrya: The next year.

Erica: The next year her best friend, her bottom bitch passed away. It was very violent. It was around the holidays. It was just so frigging tough. I remember having to really prepare myself for her services, because not only was this ... I grew up in a very small neighborhood, so not only was this my mom's best friend, it was my high school best friend's aunt and my god-daughter's great-aunt and my brother's best friend's mom. Everything is so intertwined. I knew that I could stay at home, and I truly thought about, "Maybe don't go to this service," but I also was like, "You know what?" I feel like I needed to be there, to not only show love and support, but honor this person. When I tell you it was very triggering, going to a funeral, my first funeral after losing my mama, I was just like, "Yo, this is a lot." Then I'm in there crying. They're like, "Damn. Were they that close?" I'm like, "Oh, my bad. I got some of my own shit that I'm dealing with." I think that this book showed beautifully how all these relationships and all this stuff, how you have to adult and be a person on top of all this other shit you're dealing with in life.

Kenrya: Yeah, and the ways that grief can catch us. It has a way of bubbling up.

Erica: You be minding your business.

Kenrya: You could be fucking watching cartoons.

Erica: You minding your business, that shit knock you in the back of your head. Yeah, girl.

Kenrya: Eating some fucking cereal. You can be doing any of the things.

Erica: Listening to the radio. Every time I hear that song, “pussy don't fail me now,” I think of my mama.

Kenrya: Do you?

Erica: I swear I think of my mama.

Kenrya: It's a good song.

Erica: I remember when the song first came out, I remember my mama was like, "Oh! Oh! Oh!" It was just so like, "Really, mama?"

Kenrya: It's a great song.

Erica: It's, "Pussy don't fail me now."

Kenrya: "I'm about to turn this mother out."

Erica: "About to turn this mother out, so he don't want nobody else but me and only me." It's a sermon. It's a prayer that we've all prayed at some point in our life. I remember right after my mom passed away, I was having a really rough day and got in the car to go home and that song came on on the fucking radio in the middle of rush hour.

Kenrya: That was your mama.

Erica: I'm like, "Oh."

Kenrya: She's like, "Here, girl."

Erica: Yeah, "Here, girl. Let me let you know I'm still here." Completely off topic, one of the things that helps me through grief is I recognize signs. I feel like my mama, my granny, my dad are always talking to me, because I see those things. Maybe I'm just delusional or whatever. It helps me get through this shit. I am convinced that they be talking to me. It's not always on some, an angel comes down in a white robe to tell me, "Your mother said be strong and be supportive." No. Sometimes it's-

Kenrya: A cardinal.

Erica: ... pussy don't fail me now. What'd you say?

Kenrya: A cardinal outside the window.

Erica: I remember once, this was right before I started chemo, and so I was going through the whole fertility treatments. You all know that was rough on me. I was crying for any reason anytime.

Kenrya: Not a great time.

Erica: That's when I most felt cancery. I remember I went to do some echocardiogram, some shit, and I walk into the hospital. My mom worked in hospitals. I walk into the hospital. There's this lady sitting at the front desk where I checked in for the thing. She had on a wig like my mama and nails like my mama. I just started crying. She's like, "Baby." She pulls me aside. She's hugging me and letting me cry on her. It was bad. I was so happy she was there. Actually, when I'm at the hospital now in that area, I stop in and be like, "Girl, you saved a bitch. I don't even know if you remember me." I don't even think she remembered me from that day. She just remembers me now stopping in all the time like, "Bitch, you saved me! You let me cry, because you had a wig and some long nails like my mama."

Kenrya: I love it.

Erica: So sad. So sad.

Kenrya: That's beautiful.

Erica: Overall, like this book. Bethany, we didn't really touch on her, but that was Jahn's best friend.

Kenrya: I think that's worth talking about. We talked about how the coaches, the folks at Jahn's job were awful. Bethany was awful in another way. It was insidious. She's supposed to be his best friend. We be trying not to spoil stuff. I don't want to go too far. I will say that she's not very supportive of her friend. She even misgenders him.

Erica: It's one of those things where it's like, "I don't like what you're doing so I'm going to be a bitch about it." No matter how much you love this person, you got to let them live life. You got to let them figure this shit out on they own. All I can do is be a friend if this shit fall apart, let you come back crying to me and I'll support you, or be like, "Look, you on your own." Don't be harmful through this situation.

Kenrya: That is a way to approach someone being in a relationship with someone you don't want, because she was awful in a couple of ways. She was awful because she-

Erica: No, I mean doing something.

Kenrya: She was awful on two levels.

Erica: I'm trying to explain it without-

Kenrya: I know, I know.

Erica: ... telling too much.

Kenrya: On one level she was awful because she didn't really want Jahn and Morgan to be together. We won't say why. We'll let you read it and figure out why. On the other level she just wasn't very supportive of him transitioning. I don't think there's an agree to disagree there.

Erica: Not at all, because you're not a friend.

Kenrya: You can't agree to disagree that this is who I am.

Erica: About who the fuck I am.

Kenrya: I didn't like her.

Erica: I also think that Morgan did, and I feel like I've seen this in relationships, where people provide support and help in an effort to just keep that person close.

Kenrya: Bethany did.

Erica: I'm sorry. Bethany was there like, "Let me help. You can do this. I can help you this way." I don't necessarily think it was a, "I'm helping because I want to support you and see you succeed." That was a lot of S's. It was more a, "I got to keep an eye on you, keep you around."

Kenrya: It was selfish as opposed to selfless. I really feel like Kim did a great job of showing a lot of I don't want to say perspectives, because fuck you, your perspective that you don't like that I'm transitioning, that's not valid, but a lot of different ways that people can react to someone just trying to live their lives. It wasn't all acceptance and love, because unfortunately that is not the world that we live in. I like that it wasn't just the virulent stuff that you got when Jahn was at work, but also this person who is supposed to be on your side.

Erica: The subtle stuff.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: I think it also showed that sometimes people just have to eat a certain amount of shit in order to ... They choose to eat a certain amount of shit in order to get a means to an end. Jahn wasn't necessarily hype or excited about ... I'm sorry I keep looking. I'm like, "Let me make sure that's the names." I don't think Jahn was necessarily hype about his relationship with Bethany, but he recognized that it provided certain things that he needed. "She's a bitch. I got to deal with this, but I'm able to make a little extra money." It provided him with certain things he needed in order to get through this period in his life.

Kenrya: For sure.

Erica: This book was a good complex one. I will say that. It definitely showed all the complexities around not only this trans experience, but just fucking-

Kenrya: Relationships.

Erica: ... parenting and fucking weirdo coworkers and-

Kenrya: Long distance.

Erica: ... all of that shit.

Kenrya: Navigating family relationships, grief, all the body stuff that Morgan really let readers in on, in terms of the way that she interacted with her body and the ways that lupus had changed it. There's a lot there.

Erica: You got anything else for us, Killa?

Kenrya: No, I think that's it. I would encourage folks to read this book. Obviously we'll have all the info up for folks to do so. Nah, I ain't got nothing else.

Erica: All right. This wraps up this segment of the show, which is the final segment, book segment of-

Kenrya: The season.

Erica: ... the season. Season Quatro.

Kenrya: Yeah, man. It's crazy to say.

Erica: I know, right? With that, we're going to turn to our next segment.

Kenrya: What's turning us on.

Erica: (singing)

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Erica: We're back with our segment called ...

Kenrya: What's Turning Us On.

Erica: Look, you all.

Kenrya: Very Walter Mercado of you.

Erica: Mercado. Is it Mercado?

Kenrya: Probably. Mercado means market.

Erica: Look, y’all. I thought it meant world. Mundo means world. Okay, you all. You all know each week we do the segment called What's Turning Us On. We like to feature products or things that we've purchased that brings us joy-

Kenrya: Turns us on.

Erica: ... in our nibble bits. Today I'd like to turn it on its head a little bit and discuss what ... We've mentioned this before. Pervertables. Pervertables are what? Ordinary, everyday objects that you can turn into a little freak shit. Today I have this. It's a satin tie. I have this for sale on my website. I probably shouldn't be telling you all this shit, because I want you all to buy it from me. It's a little satin duderbop. Satin sash, sorry. [inaudible 01:10:26] probably is an inappropriate term for folks listening via podcast. It's a satin sash. I actually really like it because you could do so many things with it. Excuse me. You can do that. You can make it a mask.

Kenrya: She put it over her ... Blindfold.

Erica: You can make it a blindfold. You can use this, it's a nice length, you can tie up your arms or your legs. You can use this to hold up your legs. Granted this is just literally a satin sash. If you want, you can use it as a tie.

Kenrya: You can pull your shit off your robe.

Erica: You can use a robe. Anything. I like it because it allows you to get nasty. (singing) It's for little to no cost. We feature lots of really cool things on this show, but you don't necessarily have to always buy some shit. You can just find some shit around the house. That's what I love a good pervertable for. Freeze a fucking spoon and run it down your man's back. Pull this fresh out the dryer and blindfold him or her or them and rub it down their back. There's so many things you can do with things that you currently ... I'm sorry, I just got a text message about poop and I lost my train of thought. You got the same text message.

Kenrya: Great.

Erica: Shout-out to our friend. It's literally just, what, maybe a five-foot-long piece of rope, piece of fabric. It is one of my most used toys in my collection. What's turning me on, a simple ass piece of fabric. I will include links to the sash on my website in our show notes. Support me. If you ain't trying to support nobody but your own pockets, just use some shit from your damn robe or something around the house. Steal your husband's tie and use it with your boo.

Kenrya: I just got that. You ain't shit.

Erica: Okay, you all. That wraps up this segment and this show. Erica, Killa, two hoe-hosts, making it clap.

Kenrya: Bye, y'all.

[theme music]

Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Hit subscribe right now in your favorite podcast app and at YouTube.com/TheTurnOnPodcast, so you'll never miss an episode.

Erica: Then follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod, and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. You can find links to books, transcripts, guest information, what's turning us on, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com.

Kenrya: And don't forget to email us at TheTurnOnPodcast@Gmail.com with your book recommendations and your pressing sex and related questions.

Erica: You can support the show by leaving us a five-star review, buying some merch, or becoming a patron of the show. Just head to TheTurnOnPodcast.com to make that happen.

Kenrya: Thanks for listening. We'll see you soon. Holla.

TRANSCRIPTS

Season 4 | Episode 10 | Never Keeping Secrets

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